1961 300d Adenauer - thinking of buying... ANY advice appreciated

[Mike D]

Vintage Mercedes Benz or to put it in it's proper form, "Very Many Bucks".

What's a "ROI"? "Really old Indian"?

[sjefke]

Originally Posted by todds

This may be sacrilege but, how about using an m130 or something in it instead of the big alloy six?

Now there is a thought. Why not take the original (expensive) innards out, sell them, and with the proceeds make it an AMG powered 5-speed wolf in sheep's clothes? Will not give you a good ROI = Return on Investment either, but sure would be fun to drive.

Bert

[JimFreeh]

Originally Posted by Mike D

Vintage Mercedes Benz or to put it in it's proper form, "Very Many Bucks".

What's a "ROI"? "Really old Indian"?

VMB, ahh, didn't catch that....

Really Old Indian... naw, we're not discussing Pontiacs here.

Jim

[300SDog]

Now there is a thought. Why not take the original (expensive) innards out, sell them.....?

One reason why not is because he's found a running drivable example that appears to just need cosmetic work.

My comments are based upon 35 years of owning Mercedes....

Just owning or actually workin on em? Did rings, clutch and rod bearings on my first car age 15 - triumph spitfire mk11. First Benz I owned a few years later, did my own head work - spinning the valves indian campfire style with suction cup stick and grinding paste while watchin tv. Probly pulled and swapped 1/2 dozen engines in my lifetime. One excellent project was swapping out cracked rear subframe on 114. But this dont mean I'd do any of these projects again single handed with back probs I've now got much later in life.

LOL, often when an old timer says "no, not worth it" that generally means the old guy caint do the job himself. Yet this old timer likes to encourage anybody else who wants to do all the work.

Now how 'bout somebody sayin something factual about the 300d insteada all this BS'n?? The '61 aint the aluminum block far as i can recollect but the only one i seen close up was late '50s model. Meanwhile top speed, handling characteristics, same kingpin suspension as pontoon, size of fuel tank etc.... anybody know?

[JimFreeh]

Originally Posted by 300SDog

One reason why not is because he's found a running drivable example that appears to just need cosmetic work.

So far, that is apocryphal evidence. He hasn't seen it run. And running when parked years ago is code for needing TLC, Tons of Loot and Cash.

Originally Posted by 300SDog

Just owning or actually workin on em? Did rings, clutch and rod bearings on my first car age 15 - triumph spitfire mk11. First Benz I owned a few years later, did my own head work - spinning the valves indian campfire style with suction cup stick and grinding paste while watchin tv. Probly pulled and swapped 1/2 dozen engines in my lifetime. One excellent project was swapping out cracked rear subframe on 114. But this dont mean I'd do any of these projects again single handed with back probs I've now got much later in life.

Well, we have an MGB, which is at least as sophisticated as a Spit, and that car cannot hold a candle to the ponton 300d, in terms of cost, complexity, and knowledge required to work on it.

1/2 doz engine swaps and a subframe pull?

I do 3-4 engine pulls in an average year, headwork, full overhauls, complete A/C work, clutch and transmission work, as well as front end rebuilds. I've done two evap replacements (W124, W126) in the past 6 months, ever done one of those successfully?

Originally Posted by 300SDog

LOL, often when an old timer says "no, not worth it" that generally means the old guy caint do the job himself. Yet this old timer likes to encourage anybody else who wants to do all the work.

Spelling and grammer aside, you have grossly miscalculated my experience and mechanical ability. Not only do I hold a mechanical engineering degree, which gives me the theory, but I put myself through school working on Mercedes (in a small MB shop). I have a well equipped shop, and a large investment in tools and equipment, including the equipment to perform quality paint and bodywork, and mount and balance tires. I complete more projects in a year than most do in a lifetime.

I am intimately familiar with older Mercedes, and I stand by my comments that this is poor purchase decision.

My Uncle once told me to "Never wrestle with a pig, you get dirty and the pig enjoys it.". The BS is not coming from this poster, and I'm starting to feel a bit muddy.

So, buy the car, caveat emptor.

Jim

[deanyel]

Originally Posted by JimFreeh

As W. C. Fields said: "Just because I like to look at elephants, doesn't mean I'd want to own one.".

Actually "Women are like elephants. I like to look at em, but I wouldn't want to own one."

[Peter Kraft]

Originally Posted by JimFreeh

You've got to be kidding.
Only if your time has negative value......

I have wheel time behind these gobblers, and I'm not about to spend MY time and money on one.... Now a 300S or 300Sc, or even a 300 cab... well, maybe.

Jim

I have to laugh with you on the "goobler" comment, owning a late '50s 220 ponton sedan and a 190SL.

Parts are simply cost prohibitive for these cars, and the residual value of a sedan(even a Adenauer) is pretty low considering the investment of time and $$$. I have been offered a 1961 300 Adenauer, and the parts situation scared me off almost 20 years ago. The two old timers I have were bought many years ago, when they were simply inexpensive used cars. I would never go out and pay today's prices for these cars and parts needed for a restoration.

The problem is that people go blind, buy the car, then realize that even a sympathetic restoration costs a fortune. It's better to buy a nice driver, enjoy it, and sell it when you are ready to move on.

Even if it runs, big deal.

The brake system on these cars will cost more than a nice ten year old S-class to make right. Call "White Post Restorations" ang get an idea of what it would cost to just refresh the hydraulics of the brake system. Never mind the asbestos self adjusters or the aluminum brake shoes that cost a small fortune.

The fuel injection was a great system, in 1961, today parts are not available and most injection service people require the owner to send a second spare pump to use for parts when having the injection pump serviced. How do I know, my W128 uses the same Bosch ZEA injection pump.

Just for fun, price any of the light assembly's, a single hubcap or the hood star. No, you won't find a used one at pick-n-pull or fleabay. No parts are interchangable with ponton models.

Chances are, it has the Borg Warner built automatic, good luck finding both parts and someone able to make the trans work.

The rear suspension has electric motors that tension torsion bars in order to level the suspension when the car is loaded, a la Packard. Not cheap to fix.

I can't think of a single post war MB product that costs as much to keep on the road, other than a 600 or a 300SL/Sc/Carbriolet sedan. After all, other than the 600, all of those cars were based on the mechanicals of the 300d.

I would run away from the car described, unless it's cheap enough that one could flip it for a nice profit to a German buyer.

[Peter Kraft]

Originally Posted by 300SDog

Now how 'bout somebody sayin something factual about the 300d insteada all this BS'n?? The '61 aint the aluminum block far as i can recollect but the only one i seen close up was late '50s model. Meanwhile top speed, handling characteristics, same kingpin suspension as pontoon, size of fuel tank etc.... anybody know?

Read my post above. Handles like the boat it is, and pretty slow to boot.

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Better yet, find or rent a copy of the 1960 tear-jerker 'Butterfield-8', to watch Lawrence Harvey behind the wheel of an Adenauer 300d chase his mistress (Liz Taylor in her only Oscar-winning performance) to her doom in a red Sunbeam Alpine!

Happy Motoring, Mark

[t walgamuth]

The only thing I have to add is that the block is iron not aluminum, IIRC.

Tom W

[mercmad6.3]

Firstly if any of you have front ends or diff parts for 3-0-0 for sale ,give me a PM.
Second,once you have worked on one of these jewels you will understand where the Mercedes reputation was restored after the horrors of WW2.
I spent some time under this one doing the brakes and i'm always amazed at the sheer quality of the components.

Let us not forget that the same parts are used in the gullwing.
A 3-0-0 in proper condition is a smooth good driving car well capable of being used everyday in todays traffic.

[todds]

The rear suspension has electric motors that tension torsion bars in order to level the suspension when the car is loaded

That's friggin' cool! ...and scary as hell at the same time. I have a buddy with a 56 Packard, the ride is amazing. Can't believe it has a live axle.

[LUVMBDiesels]

Originally Posted by 300SDog

Sounds like everybody's calling em the ultimate white elephant of the fleet.... but c'mon gotta be no finer project car for spending thousands of hours fiddling with than the Adenauer. Used to be somebody here on the forum with 6 of em located at Maryland i think. And somebody else was cookin up an Adenauer/Airstream trailer rig awhile ago.

Y'all just caint judge owning and operating that kinda vehicle by normal standards, says me. And even if the Adenauer owner spends thousands of hours messin with the car and spends thousands of dollars tracking down parts halfway around the world, yet driving the vehicle just 500 miles per year - its still gonna be worth it.

FYI... the place with six Addies is in Ranson , WV. I got my 300SD serviced there a couple times and the Adenauers are sitting in a field. If I recall, at least two of them has the Webasco(?) folding sunroofs!

If anybody is interested in them or their pieces, let me know and I will go talk to them for you...

[Equitas]

OK, so a poor condition 300d is not a wise investment.

What should one expect to pay for a 300d in good condition? That is, not concours level, not showroom level, but in good enough condition that one could enjoy it without having to shell out big money for repairs...only regular maintenance. ie: no rust, major & expensive components in good condition, etc..

While this one has been sold, is it representative of price?

http://augustinaderin.com/1962%20300d%20Adenauer.htm

I know...it doesn't have a complete description nor complete photos, but it was a starting point.

Any thoughts?

[cth350]

Augustin knows these cars well. He ask almost, but not quite top dollar.

A good looking, but by no means great car that is safe to drive at highway speed will set you back over 20 grand but less than 40.

If you are seriously looking to spend that kind of money on one of these, drop me an email and I will forward you some contact info for several for sale.

HTH -CTH