Performance M110 engine

[gerardoparedes]

Guys, i have a 1976 280S, as some of you may habe read, i tried to change my carb because the ailing solex 4A1 on my engine was far from fine, then ended changing it for another Solex that was in a very fine condition.

My intent is to complete repair and restore the car, right now the mechanical are doing good, my mechanic is going to perform a whole car search of problems and change anything amiss, after that comes paint, upholstery and glassworks, i am investing around USD $5000 to get this car into tip top shape. This may be finished by april at most.

You know a car project is a always a project it never ends, after i do all of this, i would like to install a Megasquirt system into my car, i have USD $2000 more to spend on it, the most difficult part from my point of view is how to put the injectors in my car, since the intake manifold is for a carbureted engine, i have been thinking a way around this would be a TBI unit from a Chevy V6 4.3L but i really would like to have one injector per cylinder since this is the route i believe can help me to extract most power and fuel economy from the computer conversion.

My question to the forum is, does anyone know parts suppliers for cams, performance valves, headers and any performance parts for this car. Please post them so i can see what can i use on the car.

Regards,
Gerardo Paredes

[JMURiz]

I know of none, I've been looking myself and think the only way is to DIY.
I bought a Fuel Injected M110 engine and will use that for my starting point.

As far as the injectors, you'll have to drill holes and mount the Injector bungs on yourself. I know SDS has some bungs for sale. I'll probably use the full SDS EFI and crank-fire ignition when I do my engine build.

[gerardoparedes]

why is that, maybe too few of our engines went into production?. i have found info for some rally m110 on the w123 cars, but why is that anybody is interested on doing stuff like that.

My problem with the injectors is that my intake is for a carburetor, it seems very difficult to put injectors pointint in the right direction.

[JMURiz]

You can always make your own manifold as well.

Check the SDS site, they have some workshops to give ideas on how to do this. It may also give ideas on how to modify your existing carb intake manifold.
http://www.sdsefi.com/techinta.htm

I hear you, on the frustration, I've seen the AMG kit data and pictures as well. I even wrote AMG to see if they have any parts or specs of parts....no luck :-(

I suppose I could always write the classic center in California, but I figure doing it on my own will be just as good.

[gerardoparedes]

Speaking of manifold fabrication:


http://msruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=15436

[wolf_walker]

I'd be willing to bet one could have a cam(s) re-ground if they wanted by one of the larger cam companys, most of them will still do such things. Other than that I'd be willing to bet Mercedes got most of the easily available power out of these motors that was there to be had(at least in europe) givin it's relativly tiny displacement. 2.8L's just isn't a lot to work with unless you want to start your powerband at 4Krpm and pull it to 8K or so. Which I'm sure is possible if one has deep enough pockets. I'd seriouly consider turbocharging, especially the low compression US version and leave the hard parts otherwise stock and spend money on fuel and ignition to make it bulletproof.
5-8psi would likely be more than a night and day difference, and pretty low stress.

[alabbasi]

The Euro fuel injected M110 engine made 185hp which was quite impressive for it's day. This was around 1972. The US carb car had (from what somewhere between 120 and 160hp). I keep reading different numbers so I cannot be sure.

The 280E is a real slingshot.

As far as cams and head, yep, compared to a ford x flow or pinto engine or an SBC V8. There were not enough engines to justify tuning goodies off the shelves. AMG did produce a few cars with the M110 engine but it's not likely that you will find any aftermarket goods from them 30 years down the line. If you source a CIS engine from a 280E or CE, you will be able to get a decent running start.

[wolf_walker]

I'd also dare say, that one could be as well if not better be served by putting a good, note I said good, manual transmission behind the M110. T5, T56, something. Especially being that one can pick and choose gear ratio's with them and USE the power the motor does make to it's greatest advantage.

[gerardoparedes]

Alabassi, i have seen you do impressive stuff on your cars.

So, to go the megasquirt route i will try and find an intake manifold from a newer, CIS car, since my engine is in good mechanical condition, i strongly believe going the newer engine route would be easier, since some guy on the net has done a Megasquirt conversion on his 280GE, but buying a good engine would be cost prohibitive for me, and if i find a low priced one maybe the price is because it isn't in top shape.

So i believe i shall do one of a kind project, keep tuned for the picture to come.

[JMURiz]

You found someone that has done a efi conversion on a M110...do you have any details on the conversion...any help would be greatly appreciated!

I'd be happy with a reliable/efficient 185+ from my car...with a rebuilt transmission (anyone have suggestions for a good transmission person?) and all the drivetrain freshened up, it would be a fun car for sure.

As far as a turbo, I was thinking of this idea as well. I'm just scared of the pressure causing leaks...as most M110s have some oil leak at the head as-is.
If this fear is unwarranted, let me know...as you guys have more experience than I do.

[Mike D]

Let's get this turbocharging idea nonsense over with.

Turbocharging a M110 is a pipe dream. To properly turbocharge any engine requires cooling of either the intake air feed or the pistons themselves.

There is no place to mount an intercooler without major reconstruction of the radiator mounting and loss of the A/C condensor. Sure it could be done but then what do you have? A 3200 lb car putting out maybe 250 HP with the transmission and differential gearing of a "highway cruiser". What's the point?

Option B would be to install a lower pressure direct feed turbo. This requires special pistons which have an "oil splash" and an external oil cooler to dissipate the additional heat for an increase of maybe 20% of total horsepower. Hardly worth it.

Yeah, yeah, I know it has been done but only in racing conditions not as a "daily driver" basis.

Two sayings come immediately to mind whenever I hear people discussing turbocharging the M110, "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" and "Never attempt to teach a pig to sing/whistle, you waste your time and annoy the pig".

Go with the computer controlled fuel injection and ignition. You'll get a much more workable and enjoyable car.

Ya wanna go fast? Get a motorcycle. The Benz is for driving enjoyment and comfort.

[wolf_walker]

Not that I dissagree with the intended purpose of the car, but I suggest you look over Volvo's turbo motors from the 80's. Unless I'm drasticly underestimating the durability and engenering of the M110, there is no reason one can't run a small ammount of boost, non-intercooled, and get atleast another 25hp or therebouts from it with good reliability. The compression is plenty low, and proper fuel and spark from modern engine management are a given. I'm not a fan of turbo anything really having owned a few, but it's perfectly possible. Unless the M110 is much more fragile than I'd tend to think.

[alabbasi]

My car has EFI out of the factory, using bosch D-jetronic fuel injection. I think if your planning to go the MS EFI route, you probably want to go with throttle body injection. I believe that Mike D mas tinkering with that (or another carb conversion). He may have details.

There is a guy who did do the MS EFI conversion on an M110 engine and details can be found here: http://www.msruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=106&t=22559

[gerardoparedes]

Well, i don't want to satanize everyone who tries turbo his M110, everyone should do as they please, however i strongly believe the goal of modernizing the car with a electronic fuel injection system can improve the driving experience, i don't believe the W116 plataform apart from the 6.9 has any collectable value, so you don't f**k a car that has no replacemente. As in everythin is a matter of personal enojyment, every modification for an older car is perfect from the personal point of view of the owner.

[Mike D]

Hey it's YOUR car. You do what you want. I'm just trying to give you some guidance towards making your car a good reliable driver. Lord knows, I've done some major modding on a lot of my cars far and beyond anything the factory ever intended and it's always come back and bit me in the butt when I wanted to just drive the thing.

Performance mods are just fine if you're gonna treat the car as a speedster but it ain't no fun trying to take a geared, high-compression, "go-fastie" on a 45 mile highway drive.