Interesting 6.3 / 600 site

www.mbgrand600.com

[ctaylor738]

... and this one:

http://www.bostonisland.com/600/

[Aaron]

Paul,

Yes, that first one is Karl Middelhauve's page. Since I own a 450SEL 6.9, I am involved with the M-100 Group (600, 6.3 and 6.9 cars). I was out at Karl's shop in Woxall, PA this past summer. It was quite a trip. I originally planned a weekend to drive out to Star Motors, a shop in Endicott, New York which specializes in M-100 cars in order to deliver the transmission from my 6.9 to Neil Dubey (he owns Star Motors) for it's rebuild. So I tossed the tranny in the trunk of my Turbodiesel (recently sold to TXBill!), and headed for New York. Met Neil 8 hours later and we had a few beers then I got a hotel room for the night. Next day I spent with Neil at his shop and then we caravanned down to Woxall to see Karl (neil was driving his beautiful 6.3 and did smoke me numerous times going down the highway!). Karl's shop is quite impressive, in it he had a 600 hearse, a 600 coupe and a 300SE W111 coupe which he converted to a 6.3 liter. It bears the license plate "HOT BENZ". Of course thses three notable cars were among many other 600s of all types, including one formerly owned by Francis Ford Coppola. Karl and Neil are the guys to see about these cars! They literally know 'em in and out!

Aaron,

I've been interested in 6.3's/6.9's since these vehicles were in the showroom, particularly the 6.3 as I prefer the w108/9 series over the post-1973 w116 (hate those '74+ American bumpers).
But I would consider the 6.9 for it's mechanical refinements over the older model. The admission price for one of these models is within my range, but I'm a little leery of the costs of maintenance/repair on an M-100. I'm smart enough (I hope) to have any vehicle professionally evaluated before I buy (I live in NE PA - Endicott and Woxall are not too far away), but I would like to know if you have any pointers that would allow someone with slightly above average mechanical skills to rule out a 6.9 not worthy of a visit to these shops.

[Aaron]

Paul,

It is for the same reasons that you mentioned that I like the 6.9 a little better than the 6.3. It's more of a "useable hotrod". It always seems like 6.3 owners are constantly fettling with their cars, and with the 6.9, you usually just get in and go!

I'd of course be weary of the suspension system and also the body, as those W116s do tend to rust, even more so than their predecessors. 6.9s are notorious for eating transmissions (mine will shortly be receiving it's third transmission!), due to the massive torque the engine produces.

As for the suspension, shocks cost around $760 each and levelling valves easily fetch $1,200. A new pump will set you back $550 and nitrogen spheres run about $110 each. My suspension was completely rebuilt about 10 years ago and holds for weeks on end. If you see a car "kneeling" in the front, either haggle two new struts and a front valve out of the price or run away as fast as you can!

Maintenance isn't as horrible as some make it sound, although if you get a neglected car, it can be worse! The dry sump oil system holds 12 quarts of oil (and using synthetic that means $60 just for oil). The suspension fluid and filter require renewal every couple of years, which isn't bad and it's strongly recommended that you switch to synthetic transmission fluid. The cars suffer from the usual W116 foibles, such as eating driver's door window regulators, leaky trunks, lots of wind noise at speed, automatic climate control problems, and RUST!

Tires are another matter: Either you go with the Michelin XWX ($252 a pop), which is the only V-rated 14" tire or else switch to some ugly 15" aftermarket rim, or shell out $500 each for MB factory 15" "bundt cake alloys", or put something less than V-rated tires on the original 14" rims, which can be, and is done, but not really the best route (ahh, I did wind up putting Michelin X-Ones on my 6.9). I'm saving for the MB 15" bundt cakes!

Exhaust systems are expensive, and I do recall the water pump for a 6.9 being close to $3,000 at one time. There are no new ones, just rebuilt. It's the only water pump I've seen with an oil passage through it!

Well, good luck on finding one! If you need any specific points, please don't hesitate to e-mail me on the side!

Who makes 15" bundt cakes? I didn't even know they existed.

[Aaron]

Paul,

Mercedes-Benz does make the bundt cake wheel in a 15". I don't think they're available from the dealers anymore, but Neil Dubey at Star Motors has a few sets. $500 each wheel. They are a great upgrade, so you keep the original look and can put a V or Z rated tire on them. Perhaps next year I will order myself a set. They are fairly common on European-spec cars, because some roads aren't up to par over there, but I do believe most were removed upon importation to the US and swapped for 14" type.

That site is awesome, thanks for bringing it to our attention Paul! Karl sounds like an amazing fellow!
I'd just about give an arm for his modified (AMG) 6.3 coupe. Too bad it costs a small fortune to maintain these cars. If I had nearly 100 grand to throw at a car, it certainly wouldn't be a Rolls/ Bentley (err, BMW). Yawn...
Those M-100s win hands down, in my book.