1974 450 SLC performance

[cgoodwin]

Ran a VIN decoder and got this:

VIN WDB10702612001211
Model 450 SLC 5.0, 500 SLC
Chassis 10702612001211
Engine 117960 12 001283
Transmission 020011 12
Order 0 8 225 07286
Approx. year not defined
Dealer Mannheim branch (225)
Interior leather mushroom / quartz / pebble (205)
Paint 516 medium red (с 01.01.1963 по 31.12.1979)
Options
406 single seat with orthopaedic front seat backrest, left and right (с 01.07.1970)
seat bench (с 01.01.1962 по 31.07.1965)
410 electric sliding roof (с 01.03.1965 по 29.02.1988)
466 central locking system (с 01.04.1970 по 31.10.1993)
461 + 464 (с 01.10.1966 по 31.12.1966)
462 + 463 (с 01.07.1968 по 31.08.1969)
480 self-levelling suspension (с 01.03.1965)
532 automatic antenna without radio set (с 01.01.1963)
588 Thermoking air conditioner and electric window lifters (front doors) (с 01.04.1970 по 31.12.1972)
automatic climate control and electric window lifters (front and rear doors) (с 01.01.1977)
590 heat-insulating glass, all-around, heated rear window pane (laminated glass), Germany heat-insulating glass, windshield (с 01.01.1967 по 31.01.1971) green heat-insulating glass all round, heated rear window, laminated safety glass - Germany (с 01.01.1972)
600 headlamp wiper/washer (с 01.08.1971)
trim strips on hardtop (с 01.04.1963 по 31.07.1971)
682 fire extinguisher (с 01.04.1970)
812 rear-mounted loudspeaker (с 01.11.1974)
870 electric seat heater for left front seat (с 01.01.1974 по 31.07.1984)
fax system (in rear armrest) (с 01.04.1991 по 03.07.1997)
871 electric seat heater for right front seat (с 01.10.1972 по 31.07.1984)
fax system in console between rear single seats (с 01.11.1991 по 03.07.1997)

[GGR]

I follow you on the two first points but the the author is mistaken re the third assertion: the 450 SLC 5.0 has a displacement of 5025 cc with a bore of 97 mm. Both the MB Workshop manual I have and EPC confirm this. They reduced the displacement from 5025 cc to 4973 cc by reducing the bore from 97 mm to 96.5 mm (and not 87 to 86.5. The author may have put those figures by memory, but I went wrong by 10mm). EPC confirms this same bore for both the 500 SLC engine you have and the 500 SEC.

[cgoodwin]

Awesome! Thanks you are a star.

Now if you can just send me the AMG cam specs!

[GGR]

I wish I had them!

[GGR]

If your car is n° 1211 then it is a '79 model, as reported here: http://www.mercedesrallycars.com/registry/registryData.html

It would therefore be a three speed 450 SLC 5.0, not a four speed 500 SLC. Ask the seller to confirm if it's a 3 or 4 speed. If he says four, then ask him to confirm the actual engine number as is in the car, not as per the VIN decoder. That may not be the original engine you have in there... Also ask him to confirm the car still has the tri-Y headers...

[cgoodwin]

I have photos of the VIN plate so I know the VIN is correct. Here is the rear deck lid, clearly aluminum as the chipped paint around the spoiler hole is not rusted and it passed the magnet test. Of course I ahve seen a lot of 420's with 560 chrome.

[alabbasi]

Originally Posted by cgoodwin

I have photos of the VIN plate so I know the VIN is correct. Here is the rear deck lid, clearly aluminum as the chipped paint around the spoiler hole is not rusted and it passed the magnet test. Of course I ahve seen a lot of 420's with 560 chrome.

Yep, that's common. One of my 450SLC 5.0's had a 500SLC badge. Vin will tell you the true story. This car is most certainly a 450SLC 5.0 because I own 1143 and 1459 which are both 450SLC 5.0's.

1459 has a 500SLC badge and 1143 has no badge at all. Go figure!

[mercmad6.3]

I don't remember the axle being dropped,I watched the helicoptor fly overhead,. The 4 speed auto trans is the one to use . You can up grade it usng a later trans and I defy any scrutineer to know that you have a W126 trans with all the later factory updates in it... The advantage being fast manual shifting and reliability . I may have mentioned it before ,but the ultimate driving trans in a 350SL/SLC was the fluid coupler trans. It looks the same but had a fluid flywheel instead of a torque convertor.

I may have some AMG cam specs buried in my computor. It may take a day or two to dig them out. As Gael says,speak with a notable cam grinder and get a more modern grind .Isky has ground cams for Mercs in the past.

[GGR]

Assuming your car has retained its original engine n°1283, EPC says it is equipped with the 3 speed auto trans (up to engine 1681). It also says it already has the 96.5 bore (from n°886).

So, you have the opportunity to go for a 3.5 four speed manual trans as a nearly straight fit, if ever you want so and if admitted by your rallying rules (Al who posted above has one such a gearbox for sale) and still go for the 10:1 cr with 500 SEC pistons...

[GGR]

Ron, the later 4 speed auto came with an integrated clutchbell with a different bolt pattern, so he cannot fit them. It seems that some W108 came with a later 4 speed auto trans that may be mated to the clutch bell he has, but I think these trans were not available in the US. He can surely go for a 6.3 trans, with 4 speed and fluid coupler, and it will surely hold the torque...

Yes please, we would be very interested in these AMG cam specs !!!

[alabbasi]

Originally Posted by GGR

Ron, the later 4 speed auto came with an integrated clutchbell with a different bolt pattern

That's what i've always understood.

Originally Posted by GGR

It seems that some W108 came with a later 4 speed auto trans that may be mated to the clutch bell he has, but I think these trans were not available in the US.

I think the W109 300SEL 3.5 had a 4 speed automatic that can be mated with to an earlier M117 engine. Once the 4.5 was introduced, MB went with the 3 speed auto on both the 3.5 and 4.5 motors. Some very early 350SLC's have 4 speeds.

[mercmad6.3]

Originally Posted by GGR

Ron, the later 4 speed auto came with an integrated clutchbell with a different bolt pattern, so he cannot fit them. It seems that some W108 came with a later 4 speed auto trans that may be mated to the clutch bell he has, but I think these trans were not available in the US. He can surely go for a 6.3 trans, with 4 speed and fluid coupler, and it will surely hold the torque...

Yes please, we would be very interested in these AMG cam specs !!!

Fantastic trans but they are almost as heavy as the m117 engine
I have W109 4 speed here. All of Merc V8's in OZ (except for the W107s and 6.9's) were four speeders,regardless of torque convertor or fluid coupler. The three speed auto is quite rare as a result.

[GGR]

To make sure I understand well, the 4 speeder you're talking about is not of the early generation with the pressure adjustment on the side, but the later shape as found on the 6.9, Yes?

[alabbasi]

Originally Posted by GGR

To make sure I understand well, the 4 speeder you're talking about is not of the early generation with the pressure adjustment on the side, but the later shape as found on the 6.9, Yes?

6.9 came with a 3 speed.

[GGR]

Yes, but I'm talking about the shape of the casing. Apparently they've got 4 speed trans that look like the 6.9 ones down there in Australia!