M110 Difference between US and Euro

[hessam69]

Hi,

I have a 1980 W123 280E, it is an Australian delivery, around 1976 all cars in Australia had to have anti-polution equipment fitted (http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2677/article.html) (great website by the way)

I know the Euro M110 produces 185HP, in Australia the specs say 140ish.. Is it the same in US? What exactly was done to the engine that made it lose 40 odd HP? Do the Euro versions have the same anti-polution devices fitted? Are the engines different internally? Maybe higher compression? Would the emissions gear fitted to my car be holding it back 40HP? I'm not sure, removing is illegal, but I am curious, my car feels like a nugget, I have to floor it all the time to make it move.

Not to mention it would use way more fuel


Thank you

[t walgamuth]

The us spec model definately has lower compression pistons than the euro.

I am not sure but I think the cams are different and of course the emissions style distributor probably has a vac retard feature which really stifles the performance.

Other than those things the jetting on the carbs might be different too. The basic block crank and rods should be the same.

The exhaust manifolds are different in the later FI engines as well. I believe in the us the cats are integrated into the exhaust manifolds.

I took a lot of time to convert my BMW bavaria distributor back to pre emission specs back in the eighties and it really woke up the performance of the engine. This is something I did using junkyard parts and my own hands.

[hessam69]

Cool. My car is Kjet injection, it does not have catalytic converters because it was made before unleaded petrol was around.

Vacuum retard in the distributor is interesting, don't they normally have vacuum advance? I know when holding a timing light on my car and increasing the revs the mark on the harmonic balancer goes up, that means it is advancing, could you tell me more about my distributor and how I can tell if I have the emission distributor? I am totally new to MB

Can I have my cams ground to euro spec?

Thanks

[Mark DiSilvestro]

In 1972, all cars sold in the US were required to be able to use unleaded gas. For many, this required reduced compression as unleaded gas was only widely availible in regular grade. Around that time, US regulations also changed, requiring manufacturers to advertise net horsepower instead of the (often inflated) gross horsepower ratings.
For example, the DIN horsepowr rating for the 1968 300SE 6.3 was 250, while the SAE gross horsepower rating for the same car was 300. So some of the horsepower loss was only on paper.
By the mid '70s, some German manufacturers also compounded the power loss by choosing a thermal-reactor emissions system, which required overly rich fuel mixtures and timing modifications that further reduced performance and fuel economy. California's tougher emissions requirements also reduced performance.
By 1977, the Euro 280SE, with the M110 engine, was rated at 185 DIN horsepower, while the US version was rated at 142, and the California version was rated at 137.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[Takernz_30]

Yeah, US-spec W116 280S was 125hp, I imagine that what is like (that power) in a 1800 kg car?

[hessam69]

Well my car really feels breathless... 140HP in a 3350lb car, I also drive a buick 3.8 V6 car that has 175HP and weighs the same as my merc and the difference is like night and day, so much better power and throttle response, but of course my merc isn't a 3.8.

Basically I just want to know if I can get close to the euro spec HP, I would be happy with just 20HP more as that would be a good enough improvement for me. I'm interested in finding out more about the vacuum retard distributor and whether or not my car has this, I can post pics, and any other easy ways I can euro-ise my M110,


Thank you

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Originally Posted by Takernz_30

Yeah, US-spec W116 280S was 125hp, I imagine that what is like (that power) in a 1800 kg car?

And remember, we got those heavy (Some call them picnic-benches) 5-mph bumpers!
Many years ago, I had the opportunity to drive a mid-70s 280S, and it seemed OK to me. But back then my main transportation was a '61 180b Ponton with 68 DIN horsepower. About the same power as the '82 240D I drive today!

Happy Motoring, Mark

[alabbasi]

Originally Posted by Takernz_30

Yeah, US-spec W116 280S was 125hp, I imagine that what is like (that power) in a 1800 kg car?

Oddly enough, a buddy of mine bought a 280s in Tenessee unseen on Ebay for $300. We went up there and he drove it back to Atlanta. He was barreling through the mountains in that with me following him in my 97 E420. From where I was positioned that car looked like it had plenty of poke.

[Takernz_30]

Originally Posted by alabbasi

Oddly enough, a buddy of mine bought a 280s in Tenessee unseen on Ebay for $300. We went up there and he drove it back to Atlanta. He was barreling through the mountains in that with me following him in my 97 E420. From where I was positioned that car looked like it had plenty of poke.

it's a good catch for him indeed! That Solex 4A1 is troublesome when top cover is warped due to incorrectly torqued down like my 280S right now. I need a used but good carb (no warpage).

[280EZRider]

Originally Posted by hessam69

I'm interested in finding out more about the vacuum retard distributor and whether or not my car has this, I can post pics, and any other easy ways I can euro-ise my M110,


Thank you

The retard vacuum line to the distributor runs through a switch located on the left wheel well. The switch keeps the retard option nonfunctional during all operations above idle. It also allows the retard to function w/AC turned on. (This too I believe is just at idle). So this function does nothing to eliminate HP. I would guess whatever has been installed to meet emmisions standards is the power thief.

[hessam69]

Ok I just want to make sure that the distributor vacuum retard does not hurt performance, because as you can see there was a post from a user that said he removed it from his BMW distributor and it made his car drive better, if this is not so with the Merc distributor, then that leaves the compression ratio and the cams right?

So in theory if all I did was bump up the compression and use the euro spec cams I should have 185HP? I would like to make sure that is all that is holding my car back, also euro cars don't have emissions gear as well, thus the higher compression, that would probably be worth a couple HP, do the euro cars have a PCV valve?

Thanks guys

[t walgamuth]

Unless you can find a good used euro motor, building yours to that spec will be expensive. I priced pistons a couple of years ago when we built my euro and the set of six was 1600 IIRC.

[hessam69]

So to make mine anything like a euro no matter what the head has to be removed? In other words no cheap ways?

[t walgamuth]

Your best bet is to get the car running well first, and second unless it is vastly different than my old BMW the distributor if converted to non emission specs will make a huge difference in performance and mileage.

I'ver never owned a 110 with a carb but a us spec 110 FI has plenty of power and lots of torque. It does not compare with the euro version but is plenty of engine for the car.

[hessam69]

My car is fuel injected, however it certainly absolutely definately has no power or torque... It is totally gutless, if I'm cruising normally and come up to a slight incline it won't make it up unless I kick down, I don't blame it, with only 140HP it's not its fault. Once it gets going it's OK, but it seriously lacks torque on the bottom-midrange. I sometimes tow, so it would love a little extra if I can get it.


I have done a full service and tune up, checked timing, advanced till it pings then back off, I even run it on premium 98 octane, it drives super smooth, but I want euro spec power... The stock euro spec will do 0-60 in 10 seconds, with my car it is around 12-13. If that's the way it is and nothing can be done, fine, but I want to solve this euro spec mystery and what I can do to my car to take advantage of it

Thank you