good news and bad; maintenance 2nd opinion needed

[evoldeal]

dear mb experts and fellow novices,

I had my car in for an oil change and a much needed valve adjustment. My engine received an extremely positive prognosis from the local mb expert mechanic. A german guy who says he worked on 109's and 114's when they were new.

Speaking of new, he claims my 77k engine is like brand-new, great news!

Not so great news... He says I need to change the engine mounts, subframe mounts and sway-box bushings. He describes them as a worn-out shoe, and that the engine is sitting too low and the frame is absorbing excess vibration.

Needs to be done! To the tune of $1,000.

Now I have researched here that many of you have done this yourselves, and I appreciate the related documentation helpful to completing the task DYI. I just don't have the facility or the knowledge to do this myself.

Is $1,000 a reasonable price to pay to have this done by my "mb expert"?

One other thing: I asked him to change the trans filter and trans oil, to which he refused. He says, "you just don't do that to a trans of this age. If you insist, I i'll do it and you will most likely be coming back soon for a new transmission..." He says the fluids have changed, and they can eat away at some of the delicate parts of an old transmission.

Any thoughts on that?

Thanks as always in advance. I really value this forum, to be able to read up on how to keep my car up, even if I can't do it myself.

[t walgamuth]

I would definately change the fluid and filter in the tranny.

The motor mounts are less than fifty dollars apiece and are pretty easy to change. I would look at mine and see if they are collapsed. If they are really bad the mounts will get metal to metal and create very excessive vibration..

Glad to hear he thinks it is good. Did he run a compression test to come to that opinion?

[Mike D]

Lets do a total of the needed to replace items.

About $50 per the engine mounts (hey, the shop does a mark-up on parts, whaddya expect? They don't get their electricity for free and THEY have to warranty them), figure an hour labor per so that's $65 X's 2 plus $100 so you're looking at $230 for a "cheap" shop.

It seems to me, the last time I bought sub frame bushings they were $80 MY cost apiece. Probably 3 hours shop rate labor so, $195 for the bushing set plus 3 hours at $65 and you have $390.

Figure another $70 for the stabilizer link kit (labor should only be about an additional hour because you have to disconnect the link to replace the bushings anyway) so you're looking at at least another $135

Total up a "cheap" shop and you're looking at $750 or so. If the shop rate is any higher then multiply the difference by a factor of 8.

Yup, $1000 is probably not unreasonable, maybe not likeable but not unreasonable.

[todds]

I'm doing all this right now on my w111 with the same suspension and most of the same part numbers. I spent about 600 bux in parts in a combination of discount aftermarket parts and discounted originals from the MB classic center. I decided not to do the shocks because mine are fine and it would've set me back another $160, however I'm replacing ALL rubber (not just the subframe and motor mounts.) $1000 bux is not a bad figure by any means, but I believe that a prejudice against changing tranny fluid is unwarranted. Take it for what you will, it's not an easy job and there are a lot of little adjustments and alignment to wrap it all up. He may find issues with your kingpins while in there too, like me. Twinockchef has an excellent writeup with pictures detailing a broken lower suspension arm, much of what he did is probably similar to what you need done. Search for "suspension failure rebuild". In the end I believe it will be worth it. Doing this has given me a new respect for the engineering that went into this suspension, it is quite a nice system and seems very well built.

I should edit this to say that I would personally seek someone else out who is the community-supported local MB expert in the greater area and isn't afraid of tranny fluid. It's worth a drive/hassle for this type of repair, it's not the kind of thing you'd want half-assed on your car or you'll just be paying someone else again in the future to replace stuff this guy should've fixed while it was apart in addition to just the mounts. It ain't gonna be cheap though unless you DIY. The tranny might die regardless, any symptoms that might cause you to want a fluid change could just be signs that it's about to give up the ghost. They all shift hard and start out in 2nd though, so don't worry about that. They're generally really tough trannies, one single fluid change isn't gonna make or break 'em. A number of neglected changes will however.

[todds]

Wait a minute, scratch the entire first half of that post, I just realized you have a w114! I thought you were asking about a w108. Most of it doesn't apply outside the tranny advice.

[Ed Richardson]

It depends on how you want your car to drive. If you are going to keep it and drive it, then answer, if you trust him as honest and a good mechanic, stay with him. They are worth it in the long run.
Those parts do wear out, it is all parts of ownership.
Ed

[Wodnek]

I have heard many older mechanics say that about old transmissions. I have no idea if it is true, or maybe WAS true in the past.

I have heard it said about old radiators too, that if they havent had a flush and fill in over 10 years, just leave it alone. This one does seem to be true. I had my wife's 90 F350 Diesel flushed and filled and it leaked like a sieve afterward. i ended up buying a radiator for it.

[todds]

Well you probably still did the right thing, at least whatever dead coolant was silting up your radiator couldn't plug up the heads/block/w.p. any further right? Also, overheating sux :-)

[JMela]

These tasks are all pretty DIY-friendly. Here's some documentation/ procedures:

Subframe mounts (similar to your car's setup)

http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/W108Subframe

Front subframe mounts installed!

Sway bar bushings(again, for a 108 but its the same deal. You'll really feel the difference when these are replaced)

Sway Bar Bushing Replacement

Motor mounts (taken from a JA17 post, this was for a 110 I believe, but the technique should be universal)

"Do one side at a time. Clean out their bolt sockets of all grease and grit before you begin. If you round out one of these your project will become a nightmare.

You can use a piece of sturdy wood board under the oil sub pan and gently lift the engine with a floor jack. Make sure the wood board is sturdy and is large enough to go from one side of the sub pan to the other. Slightly off-set the floor jack to the side of the engine that you are working on. Lift the engine just far enough to remove the mount after all the bolts have been removed.

For installation, install the large 19mm bolt first leaving it loose. Next install the hardest to reach small 6mm bolt leaving it loose. Next lower the jack enough to bear down on the mount. Use a pick or phillips screw driver to align the last hole (the weight of the engine should keep the mount in place) and install the last 6mm allen bolt. Tighten them all up and move to the other side repositioning floor jack on that side."

[evoldeal]

Thanks for all the great advice.

I am moving closer to trying this one myself! with the help of my dad hopefully.

I looked in to the different kits for sale in the store here, and some posts about after market rubber. Do you think I'm best off ordering all these parts from the classic center?

I'm excited to feel the difference on the road that these replacements should give.

[vwkess]

$1k doesn't sound bad at all... especially for NYC rates. If you can do it with your dad and yourself, it could be fun!

I agree with him saying not to change the trans fluid. It's been about 15 years since I have been a mechanic but we used to see the same thing all the time. Did it happen every time? No.. but I'd say a good 80%. It's not that the new fluid eats away the delicate parts... it eats away the things holding the delicate parts together! Namely varnish. You put the new fluid in and these excellent detergents wash the varnish away and next thing you know the friction material gets wiped right off the discs.

Now if the trans has always been properly maintained at the proper intervals, that doesn't apply. But if the fluid has been in there a long time or the trans hasn't been properly serviced over time, it is better to leave the old fluid in it (provided of course it is not burned or contaminated with water). Stick a big extra magnet on the bottom of the pan and drive it

[evoldeal]

Originally Posted by vwkess

Now if the trans has always been properly maintained at the proper intervals, that doesn't apply. But if the fluid has been in there a long time or the trans hasn't been properly serviced over time, it is better to leave the old fluid in it (provided of course it is not burned or contaminated with water). Stick a big extra magnet on the bottom of the pan and drive it

I've heard about this magnet stuff! Are u serious? When I check the Trans fluid it looks pretty clean and reddish in color.

About the D.I.Y. business. I'm contemplating.. I'd have to drive it 600 miles to do the work, and if something goes wrong..

I've gone over JMela's links in mind thousand times by now.. LOL

[vwkess]

Yep, the magnet will attract any steel particles and keep it at the bottom of the pan. Good luck! I say spend the time with your dad if you can; wish I still had one to do things with!

[JeffreyNMemphis]

You did not explicitly state which year, make and model. If you look at the very top of this page there is a like labeled "User CP" where you can create a signature stating which car(s) you own. It would be helpful to those who want to share their experience to know which car you have.

[JMela]

I've gone over JMela's links in mind thousand times by now.. LOL

I'm in Brooklyn if you guys need a hand. Yes, MB Classic center is a good place for parts. You can be assured that the factory parts will fit and work properly.