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  #16  
Old 11-19-2009, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerwagen80 View Post
I don't want to build a "fake", I hate fiberglass kit car garbage fakes as much as the next Classic Mercedes Owner.
If I may, I think the confusion is that you are saying that you are going to build a replica of a 500K Coupe that's not a fake. A replica is, by very definition, a fake. I understand that you are referring to the VW kits as "fakes" but it's a point not well clarified.

Unfortunately, you further cloud the issue by mentioning the use of a Chevy or Ford chassis for your starting point. So when you say you don't want to build a fake 500K, but you want to use an S-10 chassis as the base, one starts to wonder exactly what your goal is.

That being said, I think I understand what you want to do, which is to build a replica of the 500 Coupe using a Mercedes engine as the motive power and hand-forming the metal panels using old-school tools and completely avoiding the use of fiberglass.

It sounds like a cool project and if you have the time and money then by all means go for it.
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  #17  
Old 11-19-2009, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerwagen80 View Post
I don't want to build a "fake", I hate fiberglass kit car garbage fakes as much as the next Classic Mercedes Owner.

If I ever have to speak to another VW gazelle kit owner drone on about "how much his car is worth" while I'm out in my 1980 450sl It will be too soon.

In my original post I stated that if I owned a real 500-K Courier it would be a Concourse restored car that never see's the road because the car is so rare the risk of losing a million dollar car to some yokel who isn't paying attention is too great.

I also stated that it's not about creating "valuable investment" but a real steel bodied car that will be driven daily and has the dependability of a solid and proven Mercedes power train.

If my tongue in cheek delivery confused you, Mea Culpa.

I have owned several collector cars and currently have another "REAL" Mercedes.

I am sick of seeing knock off's of the famed 500-k special roadster they always seem to be fiberglass crap convertible and the kit car crowd is not my scene.

What you never see is the elegance and style of the Coupe or the Courier
and never in real steel.

I'm not looking for a "project" I am considering building a custom steel coach that happens to be on a Mercedes platform or if I can't reuse an orphaned Mercedes platform at least reuse the majority of a car whose steel body has lost any or all usefulness.

Again this is not going to be an expensive kit that is worthless when finished. It's not even necessarily going to be a costly build as I can and have done most of the work on other builds and rebuilds myself.

As to it being time consuming I am retired and I have plenty of time.
A bit defensive aren't you? Relax, build whatever you want. But in reality, it will still be a replica. Albeit, a nice one if done well.
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Last edited by 450slcguy; 11-20-2009 at 02:09 PM.
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  #18  
Old 11-20-2009, 02:03 PM
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Here's my (European) input

If you go for a modern interior option I'd save the time and bother and just buy one of these

http://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/sales/aeromax_images.html

There is no way I'd go for a diesel engine in a body like that - as much as I like diesels (and I own one!)

If you want to be different build it to take electric motors - unless you are really really good at fabricating and amazingly well organised I guess battery technology will be better than it is at the moment! A decent electric powered car will win many a traffic light race...

You sound like you have the skills - so why are you trying to match up VW body shells and chassis from other donors? I'm no expert but surely you'd get a better result from making your own tubular steel (brazed joint) chassis - I've always found that it takes for ever to alter something that has already been made - I'd start from scratch and if you can't make a large panels such as the roof curves get someone else to do it for you.

Good luck with your project.
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  #19  
Old 11-20-2009, 02:17 PM
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your taste is impeccable. now don't put that in doubt by creating a dubious copy of an impeccable work of engineering and art.

or not?

(just my opinion)
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  #20  
Old 11-20-2009, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
Here's my (European) input

If you go for a modern interior option I'd save the time and bother and just buy one of these

http://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/sales/aeromax_images.html


Good luck with your project.

I have a burning desire to photoshop the license plate in those pictures to read "DOUCHEBAG" instead of "MORGAN"
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  #21  
Old 11-20-2009, 05:59 PM
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we are all crazy in some sense, go for it, and if you decide otherwise and want an original collectible to restore, I have a 65 Rolls Silver Cloud for sale a real beauty that needs someone to love it
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  #22  
Old 11-21-2009, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpy451 View Post
I have a burning desire to photoshop the license plate in those pictures to read "DOUCHEBAG" instead of "MORGAN"
I take it that you're not a fan of wooden English cars then? Neither am I but this sort of proves my point about adding in a modern interior... don't ya think?
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  #23  
Old 11-21-2009, 01:49 PM
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There are some fairly inexpensive mercedes available which don't cost an arm and a leg....like some early 50's 170s or 170d's. They have wonderful lines (not as good as the pictures above) but offer a wonderful starting point so you don't have to fabricate everything.

Building a one off car from scratch is an enormous undertaking and takes truckloads of money to do and not have it look "fakey".

I suggest starting with a real car and then just upgrading to a more modern Mercedes motor. That way you can actually insure it so if you are in an accident it can be repaired and you can buy fenders and bolt them on and drive home.

A scratch built car would also be difficult to sell, unless your name is as familiar as Boyd Coddington.
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  #24  
Old 11-21-2009, 03:42 PM
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I Agree

With respect to a resale value there won't be any more than what ever useful parts are on the car and as we all know a fresh rebuilt Mercedes engine or trans can run into the thousands while a 2 year old rebuild isn't worth more than the core charge on a rebuild think around 1500 bucks tops!

As to the question of interior and exterior new style vs old school I have finally had a chance to see the restored interiors of a 500k Kurier and 540 k Kurier and I have to say modern is definitely out!

As much as I like the look and style of some of the rebirth trends I could easily buy one... That isn't the point.

To the gentle soul who recommended the Morgan Roadster,

As pretty as it is, it isn't really what I want. It's nice and it has all those new styling cues and creature comforts we have grown accustomed to but, unless I am very much mistaken, isn't this new Morgan a lot like the new Indian motorcycles. Meaning the original company didn't stay in business and It's now owned by a whole new group of people?

Well if any of the come and gone and renewed companies are a decent indicator I suspect there will be a sunset clause on these cars.

(If the new venture doesn't make an enormous success of itself in the first few years, They may not last. Meaning You wind up with a YUGO. A very pretty and very expensive YUGO that it is impossible to get parts or service for.)

The point is to create something beautiful and elegant from something that someone else discarded as no longer useful.

To do it in steel so that it will "feel" like a real car.

Building it on a dependable modern chassis from the same manufacturers that the car would be in tribute to and try to keep all the creature comforts the originals didn't have like power steering, air conditioning, heated seats and the like.

I think I may have found what donor platform I want to use!
It is a long wheel base Station Wagon (3400mm Wheelbase) http://et.mercedes-benz-clubs.com/mediawiki/index.php/Kategorie:W124#250_D_Fahrgestell_mit_verl.C3.A4ngertem_Radstand_.2F_VF_124_D_25.2C_1985_-_1989

Look here to see what I will be working with in the specs for a platform.



I will obviously need to cut it down, move the passenger compartment back to where the rear seats are and reconfigure the engine placement and firewall. But for my uses the platform is all I'm concerned with.

Most if not all of the upper structure can be stripped away and the platform reinforced as necessary.

The suspension and handling characteristics will be very close to stock.

The ride height will be adjusted a few centimeters.

With the body and inner and outer wheel covers removed I will have a stable skeleton to apply the rebody to.

The platform needs to be shortened by 11 cm between the wheels and stabilized.

This puts the platform length at the correct wheel base for the rebody.

Lots more to research and hopefully find a set of Blueprints for the Autobahnkurier.

Last edited by panzerwagen80; 11-21-2009 at 03:44 PM. Reason: typo's
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  #25  
Old 11-21-2009, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregoryV022 View Post
are you crazy? yes

is this an awesome idea? yes

would i do it? yes

can you do it? it sure sounds like you can


so DO IT??? HELL YES
I have to agree, if nothing, it's a way or you to spend your time doing something you love. If the project reaches comletion, you'll enjoy it. Nay sayers here are jealous.
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  #26  
Old 11-22-2009, 02:51 AM
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Finally someone gets it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerSD View Post
I have to agree, if nothing, it's a way or you to spend your time doing something you love. If the project reaches comletion, you'll enjoy it. Nay sayers here are jealous.
I have been keen to inject humor into my posts because I expected the detractors and naysayer's to come out in the first place.

Arguing on the internet with someone is a sure sign of mental instability.

I am not here seeking approval or for that matter permission to do this.

I want to enjoy building a steel replica of a car I think is one of the most beautiful Mercedes ever made.

A car built just for me that I can actually drive without worry of it being devalued with each mile it will accumulate.

I want to get as close to the real thing in look and feel as time and money will allow.

I am not concerned in the least that the purists won't appreciate it until it's finished and then may not like it and will insist on picking it apart.

I will be the one who owns a dream machine he built with his own money, blood, sweat, and tears.

A car that underneath it all is still a Mercedes and not the dream of some other person who for reasons of economy had to resort to fiberglass and compromise. Then had to sell copies of it to other people who lacked either the skill's or the courage to be a follower of dreams.

When it's done I will have the memories of what I accomplished and some terrific stories to tell my car buddies when we're all at Denny's gumming our grand slam breakfasts.

Worst case scenario the experience will be worth the effort and best case scenario I'll end up with the look and feel of a hand crafted custom steel coached automobile that turns heads and will go for a few hundred thousand miles.

Wasn't that what most of the people who actually purchased w29's experienced?

I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed... but I'm certainly not the dullest!

"People who lack vision are doomed to live in a world filled with compromises.

People that have vision but lack fortitude are doomed to spend their lives working for the dreams of others.

People who have both are the one's enjoying life!"


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  #27  
Old 11-22-2009, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerwagen80 View Post
I have been keen to inject humor into my posts because I expected the detractors and naysayer's to come out in the first place.

Arguing on the internet with someone is a sure sign of mental instability.

I am not here seeking approval or for that matter permission to do this.

I want to enjoy building a steel replica of a car I think is one of the most beautiful Mercedes ever made.

A car built just for me that I can actually drive without worry of it being devalued with each mile it will accumulate.

I want to get as close to the real thing in look and feel as time and money will allow.

I am not concerned in the least that the purists won't appreciate it until it's finished and then may not like it and will insist on picking it apart.

I will be the one who owns a dream machine he built with his own money, blood, sweat, and tears.

A car that underneath it all is still a Mercedes and not the dream of some other person who for reasons of economy had to resort to fiberglass and compromise. Then had to sell copies of it to other people who lacked either the skill's or the courage to be a follower of dreams.

When it's done I will have the memories of what I accomplished and some terrific stories to tell my car buddies when we're all at Denny's gumming our grand slam breakfasts.

Worst case scenario the experience will be worth the effort and best case scenario I'll end up with the look and feel of a hand crafted custom steel coached automobile that turns heads and will go for a few hundred thousand miles.

Wasn't that what most of the people who actually purchased w29's experienced?

I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed... but I'm certainly not the dullest!

"People who lack vision are doomed to live in a world filled with compromises.

People that have vision but lack fortitude are doomed to spend their lives working for the dreams of others.

People who have both are the one's enjoying life!"


S.L.Alexander
All right all ready, enough talking, start doing!
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  #28  
Old 11-22-2009, 02:55 PM
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No GF or wife, eh?

Better to waste the money on something, then, that won't argue with you or tell you you're not spending enough on her, eh?

Good luck with the project then...

BTW, you really don't have a GF/wife, do you? You know they wouldn't allow you have such notions, right?
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  #29  
Old 11-22-2009, 08:49 PM
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Actually I do!

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Originally Posted by mgburg View Post
No GF or wife, eh?

Better to waste the money on something, then, that won't argue with you or tell you you're not spending enough on her, eh?

Good luck with the project then...

BTW, you really don't have a GF/wife, do you? You know they wouldn't allow you have such notions, right?


I am happily married for the last 9 years to the most beautiful and kind woman I have ever had the good fortune to meet and for some reason, still unknown to me, she actually likes me!
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  #30  
Old 11-23-2009, 12:37 PM
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Hey Panzerwagen80 it is nice to hear you've reached a decision about the interior choice and you've started your plans for the chassis I see. Are you planning to publish your progress here?

I for one will be very interested to see how you are getting on.

(If I ever get the chance - at the moment I'm stuck for time, money, space, and talent - I'll make something from scratch too)
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