Update on 280C Progress, question regarding air pump... (W114 M110)

[Rahulio1989300E]

Originally Posted by wolf_walker

So what does the large bolt hold on?

Interesting note, I have it on, ahem, good authority, that if you leave your 1/2 drive
ratchet on that big bolt where you were previously rotating the engine over, and forget about it, and start the car, it loosens that bolt nicely and makes a hell of a mess in the vicinity.

That would scare the **** out of me.

[Rahulio1989300E]

Well, I spent yesterday being a bit lazy and doing a few things... I went to pick up 2 envelopes sent from India... dropped by a local dealership to get a closer look at one of the new Challengers, played a couple hours of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, double checked the plans for the new desk I am building... etc.

Armed with a can of degreaser (Made in the U.S.A.) and a free airline toothbrush (Made in China) and a garden hose (U.S.A) I went to work on the front of the M110.

I have a bunch of questions so if you have an answer, please chime in!


The rubber triangular part you see is part of the throttle linkage and is deteriorating, is there a replacement part? I looked in the Fastlane catalog and could not find it...


1/2" breaker bar --> 1/2" to 3/8" adaptor --> 3/8" extension --> 3/8" to 8mm hex = Loosened compressor! Yeah!


Degreased engine so far, still have some nook and crannies and the area around the power steering pump.


Took the thermostat cover off.




Had to pry the old thermostat out, it looks to be in good shape, but I am replacing anyways, but will keep the old part.




Old thermostat is a 75C model (opens when it coolant hits 75C)


Inside of cover...


Looks like the previous owner(s) sheared one of the valve cover bolts at one point, don't think it needs attention for now.






What are all these for? Some sort of vacuum control, hoses come from carb area, connect to these cylinders which convert to electrical signal which are connected to a small black box behind this metal bracket... Anyone know what each one does specifically?


So there are 5 sensor mounts, 2 of which are blocked with hex plugs. Anyone know what the 3 sensors are for? From left to right?




What is this? Some sort of fuel device? Pressure regulator?


The brake booster reservoir mounts seem worn, are these replaceable?


So this is one of the engine shocks that someone mentioned before, anyone know where the other one is located? Does the engine have to be supported (besides regular engine mounts) to replace these?


??? 3 MATING SURFACES?!?!? 1 is the valve cover gasket, one is something? and another is the head gasket? I am really confused.

Valve Cover, then
Cam Box, then
???, then
Engine block
Does Cam Box + ??? = Cylinder Head?




I figured out that the A/C compressor pulley had to be mallet-whacked off to gain access to the 4 hex screws holding it on. (First, remove the single bolt holding the compressor clutch/pulley to the compressor, then mallet-whack.)

[wolf_walker]

I can field a few of these.

The black throttle dealy I have seen for sale occasionally, maybe ebay, it's a dealer part and probly less than $100, but not a lot less. Mine is the same shape as yours, seems to not be a problem yet.

When you have the valve cover off next, which will be fairly soon because you need to adjust the valves, you ought to be able to get a stud and nut from a hardware store that will work. Hopefully there is enough of the stud left to double-nut it and pull it off.

The vacuum dealys are smog related mostly, there is a little solid state relay in a black plastic box that reads engine and oil temp from the sensors on the side of the head you saw and flips vacuum relays to route suction where it needs to be. Exactly what they do is a long story, the w116.org site has the factory books in .pdf format that covers a lot of the M110 stuff from that era.
Mine started wigging out awhile ago, the control box, at intermediate temperatures, I bypassed the lot of it. The big box thing is a charcoal canister, collects evaporating fuel vapors, the valve on the carb is controlled by one of those relays down there as well. Not sure what the single one you have pictured is, it does look vaguely like the fuel pressure valve, but that should be hard-lined just a few inches from the carb itself.

The brake resouvour mounts are pretty floppy normally, if they aren't leaking they are fine.

The other engine shock is on the drivers side near the mount seems like, easier to get to. They don't bare weight, the engine mounts do that, just dampen motion at idle.

There is a cylinder head at the bottom above the block, a cam box that houses the camshafts, and a valve cover. You don't want to know what a PITA it is to pull apart. It's old school diesel like in a way. Good ole motor.

Think about ditching that exh catylist junk for a set of manifolds off an older motor. They are restrictive and stick a lot of heat by the fragile-ish head.

[wolf_walker]

Originally Posted by Rahulio1989300E

That would scare the **** out of me.

Yeah pretty much, it was a bad night. Interestingly I still drove it to work the next day, with cobbled AT cooler lines, which were both severed BTW, until I could get new ones. Bad working on no sleep sometimes.

[mbbuff]

It's starting to look like there is a M110 engine under all that caked on oil and dirt. Looking good so far. Wolf's responses are spot on. I might be able to help a little more. The engine damper shock absorber you're showing is the hard one to get off, because you have to remove the alternator, air conditioning compressor and vibration dampner, which you've already done, or are doing. That's exactly why I haven't changed mine yet. The other one is suppose to be the easier one of the two to change, should be right where Wolf said, and their purpose is also as Wolf said. I bought mine last year, and they're not that cheap. My parts place (http://www.importpartsspec.com/cart/default) had a pair laying around and "gave" them to me for a mere $60. He said they're normally quite a bit more. I didn't ask how much more. If you get into the valve train and have a problem adjusting the valves, you may have egg shaped cam journals in the cam housing. The cams ride in the cam housing without the benefit of cam bushings or bearings. Years ago I had a spare egg shaped one and was going to try to install either bushings or roller bearings. I gave up because the machining cost was much more than it was worth. Anyway, if you adjust the valves, drive it and still have a slight valve noise, the cam housing probably has egg shaped journals in the housing. The three sensors from left to right are the telethermometer transmitter (engine coolant temp. in English), the 65 C temperature switch (for control of distributor vacuum retard), and the 100C temperature switch (air conditioning aux. fan turn on and dist. vac. retard turn off temp.). That canister with all the hoses coming off it is the charcoal canister for the emissions system. Speaking of emissions. If your state has emission inspections, I wouldn't be too quick to remove the exhaust manifolds with the catalyst. They are an integral part of the emission system. That being said, I doubt that any emission station will have a book that goes back that far to show what all is on your vehicle. I believe there is a label somewhere that says it has a catalyst though. I'd do a little research before I did much with that one. Finally, the rubber throttle linkage component (I call it a bellcrank) is (or was) easily obtainable from my parts guy. I replaced mine about 2 years ago for the same reason. He didn't have any trouble getting it, and I don't remember how much it was, but I don't remember it to be a bank breaker. I am sure I would have remembered if I thought the price was out of line. Hope this helps a little.

[Rahulio1989300E]

First, thank you all for helping me and answering my questions.

As you can see, I have torn into the engine bay quite a bit. I have a new water pump and will be installing that today after a bit more cleaning.

I have decided to put off the engine shocks and mounts which both need replacing, (at least the mounts do). I don't mind tearing the engine back down to the state it is now again. I found the engine shocks for about $60 as well so two of those plus the cost of new mounts is about $250. I can do that a bit later. Right now I want to concentrate on replacing as much of the rubber hoses I can get hold of and fit on the new carb before the week ends. I am home for spring break and have dedicated much of my time to refurbishing some parts of the engine and cleaning it.

I don't have time to replace the exhaust manifold right now, but I will soon. As far as I know from my last check, the only thing needed for a car of this vintage to pass emissions is a tight gas cap. (That is what the last emissions form said in the glove box from 2006.)

How should I plug the hole for the smog air pump? I have decided to remove this as well and was wondering what you all have done to plug it if you have
removed it.

I will upload a new set of pictures tonight and probably have some shots of the two carbs (Solex and Weber) for comparison. The instructions that came with the Redline kit are terrible. At least, I have no idea what is going on with those instructions. A walk through of just about every connection is the only way I will understand...

[travismcgee]

Rahulio1989300E Be extremely careful with your radiator. My 75 280C fan exploded and tore my radiator apart. I took it to my favorite repair shop, they are real stand-up guys and have spent hours on the phones tracking down parts for me. In their quest to resolve my radiator problem several interseting facts emerged;

1) The radiator couldn't be recored. Too damaged.

2) One could not be made at a radiator shop.

3) For my year and model it could only come from Mercedes. It had to be shipped from Germany and there were only 13 left in the world, 12 now. Radiator + shipping cost $1400.00. This did not include installation.

My advice to you is to replace everything from the water pump forward. All it would take is for the bearings to fail and you could experience my radiator shock. I assume your fan is made of hard plastic. At the age of your car it is not unreasonable for a small piece of the fan to crack and fly off which will cause the bearings to wear unevenly which will make the fan wobble and over time wobble right into the core. As others have noted there is very little clearance between the fan blade and the radiator.

As long as you have the radiator out I would do the following:

Replace water pump, fan, fan clutch, thermostat, all radiator hoses, as well as heater hoses. You may also have to replace the thermostat housing, mine had a hole corroded in the tube part where the radiator hose clamps to the housing.

Of course this depends on how much money you are willing to put into it.

Good luck and hope my experience helps you avoid a major repair bill.

Travis

[travismcgee]

Wow you read my mind about the water pump and thermostat. Thermostat housing looks good.

[Rahulio1989300E]

Originally Posted by travismcgee

Rahulio1989300E Be extremely careful with your radiator. My 75 280C fan exploded and tore my radiator apart. I took it to my favorite repair shop, they are real stand-up guys and have spent hours on the phones tracking down parts for me. In their quest to resolve my radiator problem several interseting facts emerged;

1) The radiator couldn't be recored. Too damaged.

2) One could not be made at a radiator shop.

3) For my year and model it could only come from Mercedes. It had to be shipped from Germany and there were only 13 left in the world, 12 now. Radiator + shipping cost $1400.00. This did not include installation.

My advice to you is to replace everything from the water pump forward. All it would take is for the bearings to fail and you could experience my radiator shock. I assume your fan is made of hard plastic. At the age of your car it is not unreasonable for a small piece of the fan to crack and fly off which will cause the bearings to wear unevenly which will make the fan wobble and over time wobble right into the core. As others have noted there is very little clearance between the fan blade and the radiator.

As long as you have the radiator out I would do the following:

Replace water pump, fan, fan clutch, thermostat, all radiator hoses, as well as heater hoses. You may also have to replace the thermostat housing, mine had a hole corroded in the tube part where the radiator hose clamps to the housing.

Of course this depends on how much money you are willing to put into it.

Good luck and hope my experience helps you avoid a major repair bill.

Travis

Thanks for your advice, I have most of the hoses, but there are a few that dont seem to be listed on any catalog. I am also unable to locate any of the breather hoses. There is also a hose that carries coolant to the base of the carburetor mount which is in OK shape, but I am unable to locate it as well.

The water pump will be replaced, The fan clutch looks to be in fantastic shape as are all the hardware bit for the fan and clutch. The fan that was attached to my car is made of metal, and has failed before as there are notches on each blade in the shape of the A/C belt routing pulley located just above the water pump. It has been fixed by the previous owner, but not knowing when all these parts have been replaced is what led me to go ahead and replace these things.

My goal before Friday evening is to get everything back in the car for now and get the Weber carburetor mated to the M110. If I can get the car started that would be a bonus. I just want to see this car running again for now. It has been a while. I want to get new gas in the tank and oil flowing again.

I think I just am taking this a bit too slow and meticulous without knowing if the foundation of the car is solid. The car did run when I got it, but it ran very poorly. I tried messing with the Solex for a bit, then decided to replace it. Since I already have the Redline Weber kit in hand, I just want to get it on the engine. Once I see this car running the driving around the neighborhood again, I will put more money and effort into it. I really like this car but just need to be more gradual with trying to get it back in service.

Thanks for sharing your experience about the radiator. It will be one of the first things I keep my eye on when I get the engine running. I think it would be beneficial to try to research for replacement radiators from car catalogs from older American cars. I am sure there is a unit which will fit in the huge area that the W114/W115 gives and with some adapters for the transmission oil lines, and two adapter brackets to mount the radiator. I will do some research tonight, this sounds like a fun investigation for me.

[wolf_walker]

If it didn't knock smoke clatter or tick too much, the motor is probly alright. Those carbs will make them do all sorts of nutty stuff. I went through five to get one I could build with parts from the others that works half way decent. Junk.
Can't wait to hear about the Webber's performance, wish you could have had it running decent for awhile with the Solex first to compare.

For what the dealer wants for a radiator, I'm pretty sure a hot-rod shop could make one.
There has got to be a close enough application out there somewhere, an external trans cooler would be easy enough to use.

[thorsen]

I had a radiator issue with my 1980 280SE and couldn't justify spending $1500 for a new one when the car only cost me $1000. I ended up using a universal aluminum radiator that cost $200 if I remember correctly. Details are in this thread.

1980 280SE Radiator

Also, are you removing your AC? You might be surprised how cheap they are to repair. I just upgraded/repaired the system in my 280SE and it wasn't that bad. I made new hoses for about $120, but I could have saved about $35 if I had bypassed the fuel cooler. A new aluminum condenser was $75. I scored a new Sanden rotary compressor on eBay for $50 this winter. If you look around you can find new/virgin R-12 for $10 a pound - that's cheaper than R-134a at AutoZone/AdvancedAuto. Plus, doesn't Atlanta get hot?

[mbbuff]

For a good, or at least rebuildable radiator, and any other parts you may need, you might give these folks a call:

http://www.mercedesdismantlers.com/

I've bought a lot from them over the last 20 or so years. They're very knowledgeable, and ship anywhere in the world.

[Rahulio1989300E]

Originally Posted by wolf_walker

If it didn't knock smoke clatter or tick too much, the motor is probly alright. Those carbs will make them do all sorts of nutty stuff. I went through five to get one I could build with parts from the others that works half way decent. Junk.
Can't wait to hear about the Webber's performance, wish you could have had it running decent for awhile with the Solex first to compare.

For what the dealer wants for a radiator, I'm pretty sure a hot-rod shop could make one.
There has got to be a close enough application out there somewhere, an external trans cooler would be easy enough to use.

The motor seems strong in terms of low noise, lack of smoke, and power if the car was pushed. The transmission shifted all gears, has a little delay to shift (~1/2 second) but is similar to my 300E's transmission.

Thats a lot of Solexs man! How did you get access to so many? I tried searching for a 2nd one to swap but I guess I half-***ed my search?

I have a Summit Racing catalog collection, thumbing through I see some possible alternatives... it is encouraging! The ones I see have very similar coolant and transmission line layouts. I will take some measurements tomorrow to see which will fit physically. All aluminum rads, cheap, very easy to get a hold of and they are all in production.

When I researched carbs I saw some posts regarding the weber which were both good and bad. I am sure it will satisfy my needs, but even if it does not, I have no choice. I am not going back to a Solex and I will not spend more money toward a JAM Engineeing Holley kit. I will switch to a Pertronix eventually if this car is solid enough, maybe that will compensate for dull performance.

It started raining a bit today as I was working on my new desk, so I ended my workday a bit early. I will be waking up early tomorrow to get the water pump finished and the carburetors photographed.

Thank You all for following this thread and helping me.

[Rahulio1989300E]

Originally Posted by thorsen

I had a radiator issue with my 1980 280SE and couldn't justify spending $1500 for a new one when the car only cost me $1000. I ended up using a universal aluminum radiator that cost $200 if I remember correctly. Details are in this thread.

1980 280SE Radiator

Also, are you removing your AC? You might be surprised how cheap they are to repair. I just upgraded/repaired the system in my 280SE and it wasn't that bad. I made new hoses for about $120, but I could have saved about $35 if I had bypassed the fuel cooler. A new aluminum condenser was $75. I scored a new Sanden rotary compressor on eBay for $50 this winter. If you look around you can find new/virgin R-12 for $10 a pound - that's cheaper than R-134a at AutoZone/AdvancedAuto. Plus, doesn't Atlanta get hot?

Wow! I just read your radiator post and that is basically what I am researching. Do you remember where the new radiator came from and the name or model? Trans cooler? Where can you get the flexible lines from? This is impressive work and a great replacement that is cost effective. (I just want to note the details down for when my radiator goes down.)

I guess I just want to get the engine up and running first. Once that is done 100% I can consider a new A/C system. Atlanta does get hot, as does Texas (where I will end up when I move back) but my 300E has been without A/C for some time and I don't mind. As long as the windows are working 100% I am happy.

[thorsen]

I bought the radiator from Summit racing, it was a Griffin but I don't remember the exact model number. I just shopped measurements and found one that would fit, keeping in mind the placement of the inlet/outlet. Really the only "gotcha" is the size of the inlet/outlet compared to what you have, but I found that the stainless steel hose kits have adapters to take care of that problem.

The mounting system on mine was different, too. The Mercedes radiator was held in place on the sides but the new radiator could not do it. I made a simple cradle that works very well.

The transmission cooler is a 5" x 12" cooler that I mounted behind the lower grille. I think I bought it at Advanced Auto for $25. I know it's overkill, but I bought another one the same size so I have double the cooling. They also sell hose kits as well. Spend the extra $ to get the barbed fitting adapters.

I actually just put the radiator back in last night after an extensive disassembly/repaint, so most everything is visible if you need pictures. Just let me know.