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  #1  
Old 10-25-2010, 04:41 PM
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New w110 owner--initial questions

Somewhere along the line I picked up a nasty fintail virus. I think I caught it from my w123 300TD. Which, just like my horse, prefers company.

So to calm my fever and late night deliriums, I just bought a '66 230. Going to get it this Wednesday. California car. Rebuilt m180. Auto (not my preference). Working gauges and Becker. Rebuilt carbs, ignition system. New shocks, tires. So-so respray. 160k miles on chassis. Great chrome. Looks rust-free (do miracles really happen?).

So I think I'm on the road to recovery. First off, what is the general availability of parts. Can you get the common stuff through the regular channels?

Also, the heater valves are frozen. I understand they can be rebuilt. True?

Thanks, guys. I look forward to the fellowship on this forum.
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  #2  
Old 10-25-2010, 05:51 PM
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yeah!!!

another w110 owner! We might need to start a club or something.

I've been able to find most parts; although finding 13inch tires gave me a scare a few weeks ago.
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Current Car --- 05/2012 1984 300D Light Ivory, Red interior
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New Old Stock (NOS) parts

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04/2010 1965 190D(c) "Ben"
& many more
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  #3  
Old 10-25-2010, 06:19 PM
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Plenty of parts around, both new and used.

The heater valves are easily accessible from the inside of the car. They probably need to be cleaned and lubricated and re-installed with new o-rings.
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'66 200, '66 230SL, '96 SL500. Sold: '81 380SL, '86 300E, '72 250C, '95 C220, 3 '84 280SL's '90 420SEL, '72 280SE, '73 280C, '78 280SE, '70 280SL, '77 450SL, '85 380SL, '87 560SL, '85 380SL, '72 350SL, '96 S500 Coupe
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  #4  
Old 10-30-2010, 01:15 PM
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Thanks for the answers (and the welcome, Daw 2). I got it home and am currently evaluating the mechanical systems. Been spending many hours reading the 7 inches worth of manuals that came with the car.

The body is truly pristine. I have not been able to find a speck of rust-anywhere! I will post pictures soon.

Quick question. I am assuming the front jack point is the under-engine cross bracket. How about the rear? Can you jack the diff like on the 123s or is that not advised on the split axle?
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  #5  
Old 10-30-2010, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpenterman View Post
Quick question. I am assuming the front jack point is the under-engine cross bracket. How about the rear? Can you jack the diff like on the 123s or is that not advised on the split axle?
In the Workshop Manual two volume 1959 set "Jacking up the Car" is job 0-6. It says when jacking at the center of the rear axle housing, place jack stands left and right under the chassis base panels near the lateral support tubes.

No pictures though... Hope that helps
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  #6  
Old 10-30-2010, 07:42 PM
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also.....

If you are jacking up the rear using the "pumpkin", just remember the wheels will drop down. As I understand it, the "droopy wheels" is not a position in which you want to fill the pumpkin with fresh fluids. If you look thru the Ben thread (see my signature), you will find pics of the wheels supported on stacks of 2x6 ---- when I was changing the fluid in the pumpkin.

Yes, you can use the front cross brace and the rear pumpkin. I also "cushion" those metal pieces with a 1" piece of plywood on top of the floor jack.
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daw_two
Germantown, TN

Links:
Current Car --- 05/2012 1984 300D Light Ivory, Red interior
Cluster Needles Paint
New Old Stock (NOS) parts

Past:
3/2008 1986 300SDL "Coda"
04/2010 1965 190D(c) "Ben"
& many more

Last edited by daw_two; 11-02-2010 at 12:28 PM.
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  #7  
Old 11-01-2010, 03:40 PM
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Some photos as promised. As mentioned, it's a 1966 230 serial 110011-12-001578. I've been over the car fairly thoroughly over the last four days and have discovered this:

1) Front calipers are different brands. A Bendix and one I can't identify (has a slightly cast circle on the outside of the piston well). The no-name caliper is seized. Rotors good. Pads OK. I know about mismatched calipers, but if the pistons are the same diameter, is this still a problem?

2) Rear shoes OK, but there is a small leak on the RR slave. The forward shoe on this slave appears to be slightly larger (taller), as the piston rod angles up pretty severely into its seat on the shoe. Shoe is seated on bearing post well. What's up with this? Looks to have caused the leaking. Couldn't find a balancing/check valve on the rear circuit. Vacuum assist looks to be a newer kind (like my 81 TD).

3) Master cylinder was run dry, so I won't be able to evaluate it until I get the brakes sorted and the system flushed/bled. Pedal goes to the floor; minor braking at end of travel. Pedal does not pump up so the MC may be shot.

4) Column shift bushings are all shot. Really loose in the handle and also at the firewall end. Will not shift into 3 or 2, just 4. Parking dog just clicks with roll. Probably due to sloppy linkage.

5) The carburetors are not working correctly (Solex 38PDSIx2). PO said he rebuilt them (have evidence to believe him), but is very hard to start cold and stalls immediately upon putting into forward gear (better into reverse). Needs a lot of choke until really warmed up. Stalls even with max choke and some gas pedal. Played around with idle adjustments and checked tightness of carb body fasteners-not much better until it runs for a good while. Even then not great. Still wants to stall when putting in gear. What's the idle switch (the one with the two wires) on the front of the front carb do? In the manual it shows a switch on the pedal--mine does not have one.

6) Ignition is new but don't know about the timing. Might contribute to rough starting. Do you use a strobe light on the first plug and reading on the crank like other engines? Do you start from zero on the distributor indicator dial and go from there? Are those calibrations indicated in degrees BTDC? The procedure in the manual is pretty arcane. Haven't been able to figure it out.

7) Heater is bypassed. Don't know if it's stuck valves or the core is leaking. One lever slides, the other doesn't.

8) Auto transmission occasionally makes moaning sounds in idle. Manual says it is nothing to worry about. I thought it was missing fourth gear until I learned it starts in second. Once I get the shifter tightened up, I'll be able to check it by starting in 2. Kickdown works. Man this thing is really winding at 60mph! (Can you believe 13 inch tires?)

9) Engine sounds good when I can get it running well. No smoke or misses. Power steering reservoir leaks out of very top and the steering makes an occasional noise when turning at low speeds. Might need a new pump. Notice the fluid is cloudy after adding new. New alternator/voltage regulator.

10) Some shudders and vibrations at speed. Looks like it could use new engine mounts. Haven't checked the rear mount or center bearing bushing yet.

Other than that, the body and undercarriage are excellent, with the exception of two small repairs to the rear floor pans. NO RUST. Front end tight but slight play in the kingpins. Good alignment. Decent, not great, respray in original color. Interior is also excellent--new upholstery, all gauges, switches, clock and radio work. Some sun damage to headliner on back of C pillar. Brand new tires. New battery. Chrome good. Washed, waxed, and all drain tubes cleared.

How do you get to the incoming air filter?

I'd appreciate hearing from all you fintails out there.
Attached Thumbnails
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1981 300TD 310k miles
1970 280sel 172k miles
1966 230 Fintail 162k miles

"Where are we going? And why am I in this hand basket?"
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  #8  
Old 11-02-2010, 10:29 AM
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More pictures:
Attached Thumbnails
New w110 owner--initial questions-000_2352.jpg   New w110 owner--initial questions-000_2353.jpg   New w110 owner--initial questions-000_2354.jpg  
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1981 300TD 310k miles
1970 280sel 172k miles
1966 230 Fintail 162k miles

"Where are we going? And why am I in this hand basket?"
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  #9  
Old 11-02-2010, 11:24 AM
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I will add my $0.02 to the numbered items I know

1) The logo sounds like Bosch but I don't think they made calipers for these. Most were ATE to my knowledge. Bendix is a rebuilt one. You may want to pick up 2 fronts to be safe.
3) If there's air in the lines, it's normal for it not to pump up, especially if the air is in the rear circuit where the springs pull the pads back in after each pump.
4) Bushings are cheap enough, but make sure you fix the parking brake cable. It's often a bent parking pawl that prevents Park from actually holding the car. These cars were designed to use the parking brake on any type of incline.
6) Timing is measured typically on plug #1 at idle. Use an induction light. Then you'd want to measure the centrifugal advance, which would give you a different timing number (Always BTDC on this one) at a specific RPM.
7) If it's 100% bypassed it's usually a leaky core. Especially if 1 valve moves. It's easy enough to stick them open or closed depending on the season.
8) High revs are normal. Trust us, it can still go over 80 and stay there willingly even if it sounds like it won't or shouldn't!
9) Sounds like a hydraulic leak, usually in the steering gear box. Air mixes in at the leak spot & makes the fluid cloudy and take up more volume so some will spill out the top.
10) Check the flex disc before you drive any further. Connects the driveshaft to the trans.

Sharp car!
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  #10  
Old 11-02-2010, 10:06 PM
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Maybe the other caliper is a Dunlop?
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  #11  
Old 11-02-2010, 10:51 PM
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The no-name caliper is an ATE. The circle in the casting is the same as the one on a spare ATE I have for my 123. I cleaned and looked a little closer and I can barely make out the logo.

My big problem is the carbs. Here are the symptoms:

Pull choke all the way out. Turn it over. Nothing.

Wait a minute.

Pull choke all the way out. Turn it over. Pump gas. Nothing.

Wait a minute.

Pull the choke all the way out. Turn it over. Pump gas. Choke in and out, in and out. Nothing.

Wait a minute.

Ditto.

Ditto.

Wait 2 minutes.

Pull choke all the way out. Turn it over. Catches, then dies.

Wait 2 minutes.

Pull choke all the way out. Turn it over. Catches then dies.

Wait 2 minutes.

Pull choke all the way out. Turn it over. Catches, tries harder to start with gas pumping, then dies.

Wait 2 minutes.

Pull choke all the way out. Turn it over. Catches, starts with gas pumping. But dies.

Pull choke all the way out. Turn it over. Catches, starts with gas pumping. Get it to medium high revs. Push choke halfway in.

Keep pressure on gas pedal to keep from dying.

Let engine warm up for 4 or 5 minutes.

Put in reverse. Dies.

Repeat starting procedure. Starts better.

Put in reverse. Tries to stall but giving gas keeps it moving. Stop to reverse directions.

Put in 4. Dies.

Repeat starting procedure. Starts much easier.

Put in 4. Pump gas to keep it from dying. Car moves forward.

Drive car. Stays running with foot on brake at stops. Take it out of gear and put in 4, car stalls.

Starts right up. Almost stalls when putting in 4 but if use gas pedal right, car drives.

Turn off car after drive. Car starts right up again.

The idle speed is turned up a reasonable amount and I have adjusted the idle mixture. Carbs not synchronized (not sure yet how to do this). It just seems like the carb is not feeding enough fuel in choke mode. Choke throttle plate fully closes in both carburetors. Can't find any vacuum leaks around the carb. The bimetal diverter springs in the intake manifold are not operational, but I've never had this cause this kind of problem on my other cars.

Again, I would appreciate any insight any of you might have.
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1981 300TD 310k miles
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  #12  
Old 11-02-2010, 11:29 PM
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Someone replaced the original Zenith carbs with the Solex ones. The PONTON group has overhaul instructions.

http://www.mbzponton.org/

and the technical page:

http://www.mbzponton.org/valueadded/maintenance/workshop.htm

carbs:

http://www.mbzponton.org/valueadded/maintenance/workshop.htm#fuel

The stuck caliper pistin can be freed by removing the piston with compressed air. Undo the bleed screw, it may be seized so don't force it, use a freeze spray such as Loctite available from Fastenall, or penetrating oil.
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  #13  
Old 11-03-2010, 10:56 AM
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Many thanks for the links, mbain5280! I have not been able to find an exploded drawing of the Solex 38PDSI, but did find rebuild kits. I do believe, however, that the carbs are original to the car. All the specifications I have seen for the '66 230 have this carb. It seems like it was only for '66 and '67. It is single throated, unlike the PAITA or the Zeniths.

Laying in bed thinking, from my description of what it takes to get the car started, it seems the choke is just not supplying gas. Something is not installed correctly or there is a blockage. Is it possible to mis-orient the choke plate?

I fiddled with the stuck brake yesterday using a piston compressor tool. I worked it in and out and it seems a little better. Dust boots look good, although there are no heat shields. Still too much drag. It was the Bendix that is balky. Have not been able to find a rebuilt kit for it, but I think I'll try new thicker pads and see the pistons work at the beginning of their travel. Maybe I'll just get a reman ATE.

Where in the devil can you find rear shoes for these cars? Do you have to have them relined? No one carries them. If so, I've got a problem as I think one of the shoes is the wrong size.
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1981 300TD 310k miles
1970 280sel 172k miles
1966 230 Fintail 162k miles

"Where are we going? And why am I in this hand basket?"
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  #14  
Old 11-03-2010, 11:58 AM
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I think they are original. My 200 has the 38PDSI as well.

5) I think you have a bad case of vacuum leaks, possibly due to warped top carb covers. This will allow the fuel in the bowls to evaporate and it takes a while to fill them, especially if your fuel pump is weak. Are you getting a good squirt out of the accelerator pump tubes? Check this the next time you try to start the car

You might also have a plugged idle circuit.

The switch may be part of the arrangement where the transmission's modulator pressure is lowered at idle. This may not be working correctly. Where do the wires go?

My car starts easily with two pumps and full choke, then quickly back off a couple of clicks.
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'66 200, '66 230SL, '96 SL500. Sold: '81 380SL, '86 300E, '72 250C, '95 C220, 3 '84 280SL's '90 420SEL, '72 280SE, '73 280C, '78 280SE, '70 280SL, '77 450SL, '85 380SL, '87 560SL, '85 380SL, '72 350SL, '96 S500 Coupe
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  #15  
Old 11-03-2010, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpenterman View Post

Where in the devil can you find rear shoes for these cars? Do you have to have them relined? No one carries them. If so, I've got a problem as I think one of the shoes is the wrong size.
If you pick up an issue of old cars weekly, there are a couple of brake relining places that advertise there.

Can a 110 be converted to disc brakes using 108 parts?
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