1966 250SE power steering pipes and oil cooler

[mercmad6.3]

Originally Posted by cliffk

My chassis number is 111 021 22 083312 I have no idea how to decode this and am quite confused re the different chassis types W108, W110, W111 etc

Have tried to see if the chassis number of the saloon I saw the other week is visible in my photos but it isnt, all I know is that it is a 1971 car.

Found the paint code it is 332 G

Can you tell from this chassis number if the later radiator with oil cooler will fit?

You car is a W111 . 021 means it is a coupe . 22 means right hand drive with auto trans. and it is coupe number 083312.
Now,we have a conundrum .It can't be a 1972 car because W111-021's are 220SE or 250 SE.
No 220SE's were built after 1965 and no 250's were built after 1967 .And there were only 4108 250 coupes built but 14178 220SE's.
There were never 80,000 made so your number isn't correct. Look on the right hand (drivers side) chassis rail near the alternator and you will see the chassis number stamped into the frame. I am guessing but I think it should be 003312 making it a 1966 0r 1967 250 coupe.
paint code is 332 which is easy because it is a very nice colour,Dark Blue ( dunkleblau ) .

.
Ai am doing some work on a 250 coupe this morning so i'll get a pic for you. The 250's here had oil coolers so one should fit .

[Benz Dr.]

Originally Posted by mercmad6.3

that is why I said they are leaky things and the Air/oil cooler is better. The thermostat is a small spring device in the filter adaptor housing. It doesn't look like a thermostat but it is. We are discussing an engine in the UK here BTW and USA versions,as GGR points out,weren't fitted with coolers. Which is strange considering the high temps in part of the USA.

The air oil cooler works better but a lot of them will leak right at the bottom. The cooler is metal and it will rust if the car sees any salt. The 130 FI engine usually has an oil cooler. I've had many apart including the oil filter housing but I don't remember any thermostat in the housing - if there is one, I didn't see it.
Which cars didn't have oil coolers? USA FI versions had oil coolers. The 250 had the water/oil cooler and the 280 had an air/ oil cooler. The 280 non FI sedan didn't have an oil cooler but the 250 did.

[GGR]

Originally Posted by Benz Dr.

Which cars didn't have oil coolers? USA FI versions had oil coolers. The 250 had the water/oil cooler and the 280 had an air/ oil cooler. The 280 non FI sedan didn't have an oil cooler but the 250 did.

I was refering to the W126 500 and 560 as an example: US models don't have an oil cooler when euro models have one.

[cliffk]

Originally Posted by mercmad6.3

You car is a W111 . 021 means it is a coupe . 22 means right hand drive with auto trans. and it is coupe number 083312.
Now,we have a conundrum .It can't be a 1972 car because W111-021's are 220SE or 250 SE.
No 220SE's were built after 1965 and no 250's were built after 1967 .And there were only 4108 250 coupes built but 14178 220SE's.
There were never 80,000 made so your number isn't correct. Look on the right hand (drivers side) chassis rail near the alternator and you will see the chassis number stamped into the frame. I am guessing but I think it should be 003312 making it a 1966 0r 1967 250 coupe.
paint code is 332 which is easy because it is a very nice colour,Dark Blue ( dunkleblau ) .


.
Ai am doing some work on a 250 coupe this morning so i'll get a pic for you. The 250's here had oil coolers so one should fit .

NO my car isnt a 1972 but the 280 engine it has in it is from around that era, its definatley a 1966 car as you have decoded its a W111 coupe RH drive built 1966 and I think the 8 could be a 3 the plate on the radiator frame is diffcult to read, I will have a look for the number on the chassis.
Yes the colour is dark blue.
There are a couple of rads on UK ebay one without the cooler and one with but the one with looks odd as in the photo the cooler seems to be mounted on the drivers side (RH drive) I thought it should be on the opposite side where the power steering pump is.

Maybe you could measure the width of the radiator and oil cooler for me on the 250 you are working on and I can check the front panel on my car that should determine if it will fit.

[GGR]

Caution: the 280 Coupe came as a tall grid, only fitted with a 2.8L engine, and later the low grid came both with a 2.8L engine and a 3.5 engine. The 2.8L had the oil cooler on the left side of the car, and the 3.5 had the oil cooler on the right side of the car. And high and low grid radiators are not interchangeable. You need the 280 tall grid one

[cliffk]

Thanks for that info I have the original 250SE coupe radiator so would the tall grid 280 rad with oil cooler be the same overall size?, if it is did they increase the thickness of he core bank on the water side to compensate for the loss of surface area taken up by the oil cooler?

The difference in the position of the oil cooler now makes sense, the radiator I have seen on ebay which confused me with the oil cooler on the right must be for a 3.5 although this isnt stated, the seller has been selling other 3.5 stuff though

[Benz Dr.]

Originally Posted by GGR

I was refering to the W126 500 and 560 as an example: US models don't have an oil cooler when euro models have one.

Come on now, let's compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges. We are talking about 111 coupes and you're talking about 126 cars. They're not the same and the comparison isn't even valid.
From what I remember 1966 model year cars had no real differences as far as engine out put or design from Euro to USA editions. Later on there are differences but that didn't start until the early 1970's with some changes as early as 1969.

[GGR]

Not sure I want to go into an argument. I was trying to illustrate that an oil cooler is more or less relevant depending on the use which is made of the car. Long hours at high speed make it relevant, 70 to 80 mph speed limitations and improved oils which keep their lubricating capabilities at higher temperatures and a lower rear end ratio make it less relevant. I thought the W126 was a good illustration of that evolution.

Cliffk: I believe the tall grid 280 rad with oil cooler would be the same overall size as the original 250SE coupe radiator. I"m not sure they increased the thickness of the core bank on the water side to compensate for the loss of surface area taken up by the oil cooler. You should compare both cooling systems total capacities. I don't have the one for the 250 but the 280 including heater is 10.3 lts according to the w/shop manual. They don't distinguish between low and tall grid.

[cliffk]

GGR thanks for that info I have just bought an autobooks workshop manual off ebay (simular to haynes) for the 250 series car which icludes the 250SE so that should have coolant quantities in it, hopefully it will also help me with the rebuild.
I have a mercedes shop manual which came with the car which is a big thick book and is for passenger cars from 1959 but I struggle to find specfic information on the 1966 250SE coupe for the body and electrics and the 1970's 280SE for the engine and transmission.

I am presently trying to make sense of all the metal and rubber pipework once I have that sorted I will start on the engine electrics so there possibly be more posts on that subject.

I cant believe how mechanically complex this car is for a vehicle manufactured over 40 years ago

I am thankful for all the advice given

[cliffk]

I have finally got a manual for the 250 and it gives total capacity of cooling system as over 11 litres so it looks like the radiator capacity was reduced by around 1 litre when the oil cooler was added to the side, so I assume this is because the water side of the rad was made smaller to allow the rad with oil cooler to fit in the same front panel

[GGR]

Keep in mind that the 250 oil/water heat exchanger also contains water. So it may well be that the 280 rad capacity is similar to the 250 one.

[cliffk]

good point