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  #1  
Old 08-06-2011, 11:13 AM
muleears's Avatar
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Windsor, VA
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Horn keeps blowing after replacing shifter bushings, HELP!

It all started with the horn sounding when I turned the wheel on my 67 250S. Searches and research led me to the two nylon washers in the steering column that are part of the column shift. This was the thread: http://www.m-100.cc/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5960 Apparently the washers (bushings?) disintegrate and allow the horn to short on part of the shifter linkage. Long story short, I got my washers from MB, installed them per the other threads I found and now if I reinstall my steering wheel the horn blows as soon as the key is on. If I remove the wheel all is well. The pics show the washers replaced (in the white square) and the second pic shows how loose I must leave the steering wheel to stop the horn from blowing. With the wheel loose, the horn ring works properly, as I tighten the wheel, the horn ring tightens and the horn begins to blow.

The pictorial I followed was for a slightly different chassis, maybe that is part of my problem? In the instructions I followed you had to remove a collapsible portion of the steering column, my car has no such section.

Also I only removed one disintegrated washer from the area shown in the white square. The diagram I got from the Classics Center shows two, so I put two back in and they fit nicely.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Attached Thumbnails
Horn keeps blowing after replacing shifter bushings, HELP!-washers.jpg   Horn keeps blowing after replacing shifter bushings, HELP!-wheel-nut.jpg  
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Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #2  
Old 08-06-2011, 12:11 PM
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Location: Santa Barbara, CA
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I think the shift rod is too high

If you were able to get the retaining clip (washer with the slot) on without removing the shifter from the side of the column to allow rotating the shift rod, then the end of the rod is sitting too far out and pushing on the bottom of the horn ring.

When properly installed, that retaining clip sits down BELOW the surface of the bore you see in the cast column cap piece making the end of the shift rod just about flush.

Removing the shifter from the side will allow you to slide and rotate the shift rod to a much larger degree. It seems like you may have a third plastic bushing in there or the vestiges of one.

You'll need to be able to rotate the shift rod much further to get the clip slid on from toward the ctr of the column, then rotate it back the other way so that the clip is 'captive' in the bore with the opening toward the ctr. This aspect looks correct in your picture, but it looks too high.

All of this is just barely possible, i.e. tight, but it isn't too hard. The shift lever MUST come off first.
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  #3  
Old 08-06-2011, 12:40 PM
muleears's Avatar
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Location: Windsor, VA
Posts: 1,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by daidnik View Post
If you were able to get the retaining clip (washer with the slot) on without removing the shifter from the side of the column to allow rotating the shift rod, then the end of the rod is sitting too far out and pushing on the bottom of the horn ring.

When properly installed, that retaining clip sits down BELOW the surface of the bore you see in the cast column cap piece making the end of the shift rod just about flush.

Removing the shifter from the side will allow you to slide and rotate the shift rod to a much larger degree. It seems like you may have a third plastic bushing in there or the vestiges of one.

You'll need to be able to rotate the shift rod much further to get the clip slid on from toward the ctr of the column, then rotate it back the other way so that the clip is 'captive' in the bore with the opening toward the ctr. This aspect looks correct in your picture, but it looks too high.

All of this is just barely possible, i.e. tight, but it isn't too hard. The shift lever MUST come off first.
Thanks for the prompt and informed reply. I did remove the shift lever and rotate the shift rod in order to free the bad washer. It was just floating around under the retaining clip and washer. When I got it out I made sure there was nothing else in the space where it goes. Two new nylon washers and the steel washer fit perfectly in the space and allowed the retaining clip to slide back on with little resistance. After installing these I turned the shift rod back so the retaining clip would be "captured".

In the thread I followed there is a second nylon washer behind the part that is released by removing the allen head cap screws (some sort of aluminum plate). It is held on by two on my car, but it appears the retaining clip and bearing in the center must come out also to remove this. Does my car have another nylon washer behind this piece? Should I try to take this out too? I don't think I have a tool to remove that small a retaining clip. Everything seemed to fit together so well I didn't think that was another one. The slop in the shifter had improved too. Should I remove one of the new nylon washers from where I placed it and see if it will go behind this (un-named) piece?

Thanks for your great advice. I can get some more pics it that would help.
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Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #4  
Old 08-06-2011, 12:45 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 605
Daidnik could be right. But when I reassembled my steering wheel after making the same repair, I found that the horn ring has tabs on the back that must fit into slots in the hub assembly. If they aren't lined-up when the wheel goes on, the ring sits too proud. I noticed it because the chrome horn thingy that you push had no movement when I first put on the wheel.

Just saw your next post. On my w110 there was a washer behind the plate as well as one in front. I believe that your assembly is essentially the same. The snap rings (there are 2) are actually pretty large and a standard set of snap ring pliers should work. It was a little tricky getting the last one seated into its groove.
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1981 300TD 310k miles
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Last edited by Carpenterman; 08-06-2011 at 12:53 PM. Reason: more info
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  #5  
Old 08-06-2011, 02:31 PM
muleears's Avatar
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Windsor, VA
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I have all the snap rings off and am working on the aluminum plate. It is coming off but I am having to pound it off from the back. I appears to be a friction fit on the steering stem. Another few whacks and I hope to have it off. I just hope I'm not breaking something else, or making it so I can't get it back on.
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Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #6  
Old 08-06-2011, 03:58 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Posts: 605
Geez, I don't know. Mine came right off and went right on.

I forgot to mention earlier. Be sure that the bearing that goes on the back of the steering wheel and helps position the horn ring is on correctly. That could also mess up the horn.
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1981 300TD 310k miles
1970 280sel 172k miles
1966 230 Fintail 162k miles

"Where are we going? And why am I in this hand basket?"
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  #7  
Old 08-06-2011, 04:13 PM
muleears's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpenterman View Post

I forgot to mention earlier. Be sure that the bearing that goes on the back of the steering wheel and helps position the horn ring is on correctly. That could also mess up the horn.
That just fell out when I took it off so I'm not sure which way it goes, but I have tried it both ways with the same results.

I now have it back together with one vulkollan bushing behind the aluminum plate and one in front, as was done in the other thread. The shifter rod is more recessed now but the horn still blows if I tighten the wheel much. I am at a loss. I can't see how else to put it together. The pic shows how the shifter rod is now. Any more advice is welcome.
Attached Thumbnails
Horn keeps blowing after replacing shifter bushings, HELP!-fixed.jpg  
__________________

Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #8  
Old 08-06-2011, 04:26 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 605
Did you make sure the tabs on the back of the horn ring are seated in those angled slots you can see in your photo? Before you put on the wheel, give the horn ring a twist until you feel them seat.

I think the cone of that bearing is configured on one side to match the taper below the serrations on the steering shaft.
__________________
1981 300TD 310k miles
1970 280sel 172k miles
1966 230 Fintail 162k miles

"Where are we going? And why am I in this hand basket?"
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  #9  
Old 08-06-2011, 05:27 PM
muleears's Avatar
Old MB Driver
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Windsor, VA
Posts: 1,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpenterman View Post
Did you make sure the tabs on the back of the horn ring are seated in those angled slots you can see in your photo? Before you put on the wheel, give the horn ring a twist until you feel them seat.

I think the cone of that bearing is configured on one side to match the taper below the serrations on the steering shaft.
The horn ring, although loose, is attached to the wheel and they go on as a unit. I have just been putting the wheel back in the same position with regard to the splines on the shaft.
__________________

Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-07-2011, 01:12 PM
muleears's Avatar
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Windsor, VA
Posts: 1,435
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpenterman View Post
Geez, I don't know. Mine came right off and went right on.

I forgot to mention earlier. Be sure that the bearing that goes on the back of the steering wheel and helps position the horn ring is on correctly. That could also mess up the horn.
Got it. This apparently was the problem. It was slipping out of place when I put the wheel on and wouldn't let it seat correctly. Now no unwanted blasts from the horn (at least not yet) and the wheel is seated completely.

Thanks to both of you for your advice.
__________________

Muleears
'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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