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  #1  
Old 08-17-2011, 08:38 PM
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W110: 65 190Dc. Suspesnsion/brake query

So I have a 1965 190 Dc. I was going to sell it, but the wife loves it and now I have to restore and/or modify it. I have a lot of questions, and some ideas. A friend of mine owns a parts car W115 for his 79 300D.

Now to the questions

1) How much of the front suspension from a W115 can be bolted on to the W110? Specifically, what I'm interested in is replacing the integral rotor-hub of the 190 with the separate hub and rotor of the 300. If no one knows, I'll find out by the end of year.

2) If I change out the rotor, do have to change out the caliper?

3) Which would be better for the rear? My preferences, in order of desirability are: adapt the rear suspension of the 300 to the 190, replace the swing axle with a solid axle, or leave the swing axle. Maybe I'm just prejudiced against the swing axle, but it seems overcomplicated for a beam like axle, and not sophisticated enough for an independent setup.

Edit: Skip the above questions. Going the route of using W108 and W109 components.

Last edited by RyanD1981; 08-25-2011 at 08:46 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-17-2011, 09:16 PM
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You should shoot Daw_two or TylerH860 they have had a car either the same year or around the same year, I am sure they can tell ya
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  #3  
Old 08-19-2011, 04:16 PM
KCM KCM is offline
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What problems do you have with the stock suspension? I always thought those cars handled pretty good they way they were designed, a whole lot better than American cars of the same vintage.

Concerning the rear axle, you are wasting your time and money changing that out. You are talking about completely different designs. Plus, the swing axle is actually a pretty decent design. It doesn't handle too bad and is great in the snow. I would just replace the rubber bushings and center boot and call it good if there is nothing else wrong with it. They sure look funny if you have the trunk loaded down though.

I know the front suspension is a totally different design as well. The W115 is a lot closer to the W123 than it is to the W110/W111 (front and rear). The W114/W115 cars were a major redesign. I'm sure all the mouting points will be totally wrong. Again it's not a bad design if maintained properly (read greased every oil change), and nearly bulletproof. Also not sure why you want to change the rotors. The front disc brakes on the W110 are pretty good. I think they have a piston on both sides of the caliper as well. If it is cost of the rotor you are concerned about, they can be ground, or a new one will last longer than you. I'm pretty sure the later W110 cars did have a bigger brake booster that can probably be retrofitted fairly easily.
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Old 08-19-2011, 08:17 PM
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KCM, I don't have problems with the suspension, yet. Most of my issue is about the availability of replacement parts more than the cost; even if cost is a major factor. That my wife wants to use this as her daily driver, once it's all fixed up, meaning increased wear, so parts availability becomes more of an issue.

The swing axle is just strange to me, but this is coming from a guy who owns a Wrangler for a daily driver. I just understand solid axles better.

Yes, the W110 IS a smooth riding car (like a "flying couch" as one person described it) which is one of the many reasons why my wife wants to keep it.

Maybe another question would be: is there a disc brake kit for the rear of W110's?
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  #5  
Old 08-19-2011, 11:43 PM
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Some guys here have stated that a rear end from a 108 with the disc brakes will bolt up to a 110. I think you may have to upgrade to 14 inch wheels and switch master cylinders. Not sure about gear ratios, but if you go with 14 inch wheels your speedo will be off anyway.
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  #6  
Old 08-20-2011, 09:06 AM
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Changing out the suspension on this car in order to avoid parts headaches is a can of worms you probably don't want to open.

I drove a '64 190d for over 20 years. It's sitting in my carport with over 350k on it, rusting away nobly. But it always starts. It's a great car, and was a great driver for many years. It loves to go about 45 mph. Above that, it gets pretty tiresome (and freaking loud).

With a nearly 50 year old daily driver, the suspension should be the least of your worries. In the time I've owned it, I rebuilt the front end at about 225k, and replaced the rear axle with one from a parts car after the differential gave out, at about 200 k. Greasing every fitting in the front end often is critical. Some are hard to get at. Ignore this advice at your peril.

As for brakes: I never had to change rotors, had them turned maybe twice. Replaced pads every 50 k or so. Calipers once. I may have replaced the rear shoes once. Don't recall ever touching the rear drums or pistons.

I would replace the generator with an alternator, if it still has one. The AC in mine was more trouble than it was worth, so I took it out.
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  #7  
Old 08-20-2011, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander View Post
Changing out the suspension on this car in order to avoid parts headaches is a can of worms you probably don't want to open.

I drove a '64 190d for over 20 years. It's sitting in my carport with over 350k on it, rusting away nobly. But it always starts. It's a great car, and was a great driver for many years. It loves to go about 45 mph. Above that, it gets pretty tiresome (and freaking loud).

With a nearly 50 year old daily driver, the suspension should be the least of your worries. In the time I've owned it, I rebuilt the front end at about 225k, and replaced the rear axle with one from a parts car after the differential gave out, at about 200 k. Greasing every fitting in the front end often is critical. Some are hard to get at. Ignore this advice at your peril.

As for brakes: I never had to change rotors, had them turned maybe twice. Replaced pads every 50 k or so. Calipers once. I may have replaced the rear shoes once. Don't recall ever touching the rear drums or pistons.

I would replace the generator with an alternator, if it still has one. The AC in mine was more trouble than it was worth, so I took it out.
Overlander, thanks for instilling in me more confidence about the car in general and assuring me that the suspension can wait. Yes, it still has a generator, and I plan on changing it out to an alternator someday. I feel I need AC, as I live the desert. My dad and I rebuilt the front calipers and I replaced the wheel cylinders and the rear flexible brake lines not too long ago.

Thinking about it, one reason I fret over the rear suspension involved a story of someone who had an "old Mercedes", went over a speed bump too fast and broke the axle. He probably did a lot of other stupid things, too. However, this is one of those stories that, with lack of other first hand experience, can alter your outlook.

Right now I'm trying to get the body back in shape, but that is another thread. Still want to keep this thread open for ides and discussions on how to modify the suspension to my liking.
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  #8  
Old 08-20-2011, 08:02 PM
GGR GGR is offline
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Parts are available at a reasonable price. Once sorted out this is a great chassis. I have a 300hp M117 in my 62 Coupe and apart from poly bushings front and rear all the rest is stock but all rebuilt (I have a W108 4.5 rear axle and rear and front brakes). The car handles just fine and modifications are not worth the potential improvement over a well sorted stock chassis.
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  #9  
Old 08-21-2011, 12:54 AM
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I drove a 1968 W110 200D as a daily driver for over a year. I rebuilt all of the suspension and brakes. The parts were all easy to obtain and low cost. Even ordering most of the parts directly from Mercedes was easy and fairly inexpensive. Sure, it cost $3,000 in parts to get it to be 100% reliable, but I've driven it all over the western USA.

Sadly, what killed the car was rust and a smoking, leaking engine. Even though the engine had about 600,000 miles on it, leaked oil, and smoked badly, it had great acceleration and always started.

Oh, and never underestimate the cost of weatherstripping. You're looking at about $3,000 for the windshield, door, trunk, and taillight seals.
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  #10  
Old 08-21-2011, 09:47 AM
GGR GGR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squiggle Dog View Post
I drove a 1968 W110 200D as a daily driver for over a year. I rebuilt all of the suspension and brakes. The parts were all easy to obtain and low cost. Even ordering most of the parts directly from Mercedes was easy and fairly inexpensive. Sure, it cost $3,000 in parts to get it to be 100% reliable, but I've driven it all over the western USA.

Sadly, what killed the car was rust and a smoking, leaking engine. Even though the engine had about 600,000 miles on it, leaked oil, and smoked badly, it had great acceleration and always started.

Oh, and never underestimate the cost of weatherstripping. You're looking at about $3,000 for the windshield, door, trunk, and taillight seals.
Everything is still available at the Dealer, but parts can be had much cheaper on the market (this website is one example, hit the "buy parts" button). Just avoid URO rubber parts. Go NOS as much as possible. MB parts are expensive but with time and patience they can be had at a reasonable price.
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  #11  
Old 08-21-2011, 01:10 PM
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GGR, I should have made a fair warning that my ultimate goal is not to do a factory original restoration. If stock stuff works, great. If not, I'm going to look into options.

Concerning the brake system, what should be the vacuum provided by the vacuum pump for a diesel engine?
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  #12  
Old 08-21-2011, 06:23 PM
GGR GGR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanD1981 View Post
GGR, I should have made a fair warning that my ultimate goal is not to do a factory original restoration. If stock stuff works, great. If not, I'm going to look into options.
We're together. My car is a big mix of W111/W109/W108/W126/W114/r107 2.2L 2.8L 3.5L 4.5L 5.0L 5.6 and 6.3 cars. I've considered several options when it comes to the chassis, suspensions and brakes to hold the additional power and stop the car. I've been looking for the best compromise between cost, work involved and results. When it comes to the chassis, I went with a rear axle and brakes from a 4.5 W108 with poly bushings. All straight fit for cheap with good results.

The W115 belongs to the following generation and parts are not easily swappable. Work involved is not worth the improvement if any.
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Old 08-21-2011, 10:43 PM
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If the cost some parrts is high than there are other options of common German car parts.
Very smooth and dependable cars. I have a 230 ,110 still good, now.with newer insulation materials available. It can be made silent like the newer models.
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  #14  
Old 08-22-2011, 09:57 AM
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Is easy the best?

Hi RyanD1981.

My question: "Is easy the best?" relates to your suspension & brake modification questions. The easiest thing to do with your 190Dc is to keep it stock. I'm just saying. Once you start modifying it, then you are off into non-standard world.

Try to imagine this scenerio. You need some parts, so you give Tom Hanson a call at the MB Classic Center.

Hi Tom. I have a 1965 190Dc and I need an oil filter, brake pads, new flexible brake lines, and rear shocks. The brake rotors I'm using are from a 1973 280SE and the rear axle is from a 1982 300D.

Or better yet.....when you go to sell the car.

EDIT: On the other hand, it is your car. Do whatever you want to it.
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  #15  
Old 08-25-2011, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGR View Post
We're together. My car is a big mix of W111/W109/W108/W126/W114/r107 2.2L 2.8L 3.5L 4.5L 5.0L 5.6 and 6.3 cars. I've considered several options when it comes to the chassis, suspensions and brakes to hold the additional power and stop the car. I've been looking for the best compromise between cost, work involved and results. When it comes to the chassis, I went with a rear axle and brakes from a 4.5 W108 with poly bushings. All straight fit for cheap with good results.

The W115 belongs to the following generation and parts are not easily swappable. Work involved is not worth the improvement if any.
Besides brakes, what all did your W108 axle come with? Air suspension? If so, that is an option I would consider.
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