W116 options. What would you buy?

[tonkovich]

Hey, it's probably academic, but there are two cars available, that i would consider buying ( if work keeps coming my way????)

here's one

1973 73 MBZ Mercedes Benz 450 SE 450SE

73. nice bumpers, good color. been on c/l for weeks. will probably see this weekend. maybe offer $1500?

or, 75 280se euro, good bumpers, crank windows, sunroof, manual climate, etc. probably get for $4k? needs front seats redone, and some minor paint work. (by the way, that's an m110, right, with better performance than the u.s. model, and probably comparable to the 73 v-8, with better gas mileage?)

anyway, any thoughts, opinions, things to look for, etc. appreciated.

( i know that rust, in the rockers, fenders, and floor pans i something to look for.)

thanks

[wbain5280]

I'd get the 75 280SE with manual everything. Less to go wrong, esp. the manual climate control. Go for it, the Euro M110 is HOT!

[billhard]

What about this one? In LA, green with saffron and 1975 so no smog.

[JimFreeh]

Originally Posted by wbain5280

I'd get the 75 280SE with manual everything. Less to go wrong, esp. the manual climate control. Go for it, the Euro M110 is HOT!

Both have manual HVAC. The fuel mileage difference is negligible, neither will be very high (I owned several euro M110s).

The important thing is condition and maintenance. I'd go for the one in the best mechanical shape. The euro M110 is a nice engine, watch out for worn cams, though. The 73 will have the pre-CIS electronic injection, which has scarce and expensive parts associated with it....

Jim

[tonkovich]

thanks guys.

re: gas mileage, should i be thinking 12? city, and maybe 15? on the highway?

also, the 73's fuel injection sounds difficult - i take it the 75 would have a better system?

re: the one in glendale, it seems pricey, and not really into that color. but thanks, nontheless.

[suginami]

I believe the '73 has the same engine / fuel injection (D-Jet) that was carried over from the W108 chassis 280SE(L) 4.5.

Is the '75 a six cylinder?

I don't know about the six cylinder cars, but in '75-'76, the 450 SE(L)'s had the catalytic converters in the engine bay next to the exhaust manifolds.

Very bad place to put a cat due to the excess heat. Fried the wiring and caused vapor lock.

In '77 MB moved the cats to their present location underneath the car.

[tonkovich]

Originally Posted by suginami

I believe the '73 has the same engine / fuel injection (D-Jet) that was carried over from the W108 chassis 280SE(L) 4.5.

Is the '75 a six cylinder?

I don't know about the six cylinder cars, but in '75-'76, the 450 SE(L)'s had the catalytic converters in the engine bay next to the exhaust manifolds.

Very bad place to put a cat due to the excess heat. Fried the wiring and caused vapor lock.

In '77 MB moved the cats to their present location underneath the car.

the 75 is a euro import, nice bumpers, hand crank windows, manual climate control, the 73 is a 450 se, pre d.o.t. bumpers, up in your neck of the woods, i think? coldwater and sherman way, probably could get for $1500? though the owner says its in a crowded lot, a "donation car". i think i would be a fool not to insist on him taking it for a ppi? maybe at mr. mb? or anyone you might recommend?

[suginami]

Originally Posted by tonkovich

the 75 is a euro import, nice bumpers, hand crank windows, manual climate control, the 73 is a 450 se, pre d.o.t. bumpers, up in your neck of the woods, i think? coldwater and sherman way, probably could get for $1500? though the owner says its in a crowded lot, a "donation car". i think i would be a fool not to insist on him taking it for a ppi? maybe at mr. mb? or anyone you might recommend?

I live in the Diamond Bar / Chino Hills area, so not really close to where I live.

They are both exempt from smog checks, so I'd get the one in the best condition.

I'd take either one to Mr. MB Motors for a PPI in any event.

[diametricalbenz]

I would say go for the 450SE but the paint does look worn. It has had constant registration since it was purchased so at least the car hasn't sat unregistered for over a year. You might as well take it for a PPI if you can.

[pj67coll]

Not sure what the fuel injection in the 75 280SE is but it's not the later K-Jetronic which only came out in 77. Also not sure about Cat location in the 280, or if it even had them being a Euro. It has no advantage over the 73 in terms of climate control as the 73 still has the Euro controls. The 280 is not going to be particularly impressive in that size body. All things considered I think I'd go for the 73 if it's in decent enough shape.

- Peter.

[alabbasi]

Originally Posted by pj67coll

Not sure what the fuel injection in the 75 280SE

75 would still have D-Jetronic. it should be quite lively with a 4 speed.

[tonkovich]

Originally Posted by alabbasi

75 would still have D-Jetronic. it should be quite lively with a 4 speed.

its an auto still, a euro 280se would have plenty of power, no? it's definitely euro, i.e. hand crank windows, good bumpers, etc. my friend, who is using it as a "borrowed" daily driver, says the owner thinks it would be worth $10K if fixed up - i think not - says it has plenty of power, runs and handles well, etc. but has a little "play" in the steering wheel, which suggests?

anyway, i like the idea of a six cylinder versus v-8, especially regarding possible rebuild costs, fuel costs etc. on the other hand, the 73 450 is the initial model, and does have manual climate control, no? and good bumpers etc., and i think i can get it for $1500, as it's been on c/l for two months now.

it's still academic, as i have to finish two houses i am working on, but appreciate any other input you might have, al.

thanks

[alabbasi]

Yeah, they have 4 speed automatic too.

[pj67coll]

Originally Posted by tonkovich

its an auto still, a euro 280se would have plenty of power, no?

No. Or rather it's power is certainly adequate, but it's no V8. I found my 78 280S (same engine but damm Rochester carb) would start to run out of steam going up a long hill at about 150kph (about 90)mph. Nothing wrong with the M110, it's a great motor, it's just no V8.

it's definitely euro, i.e. hand crank windows

I know everybody seems to think manual windows are great, and maybe I might too if I had to fix the electric ones, but all four of my Mercedes had manual windows and I personally can't stand them. Having to become a contortionist to reach the three besides the drivers gets old quick. Now a manual sun roof? That I can live with.

runs and handles well, etc. but has a little "play" in the steering wheel, which suggests?

Mine had so much play in the steering that I could be cruising down the highway and turn the wheel almost a good two inches before the wheels started to register. Play in the steering box is normal for older cars, what matters is how much, wether or not it can be adjusted out or if you can live with it.

anyway, i like the idea of a six cylinder versus v-8, especially regarding possible rebuild costs, fuel costs etc.

I doubt very much that your fuel costs will be significantly better in the six.

on the other hand, the 73 450 is the initial model, and does have manual climate control, no?

Yes.

The most important aspect of all of this is condition. Then price, then desire. The 116's are great cars. A good one is a fantastic driving experience. Condition, condition, condition.

- Peter.

[alabbasi]

Originally Posted by pj67coll

No. Or rather it's power is certainly adequate, but it's no V8. I found my 78 280S (same engine but damm Rochester carb) would start to run out of steam going up a long hill at about 150kph (about 90)mph. Nothing wrong with the M110, it's a great motor, it's just no V8.

The problem with the US V8 (even a 73) is that it made 180-190hp while the 280SE euro made 185hp. The 4.5 had a 3 speed box which was more like a 4 speed with no first gear, which is why 1st to 2nd shift is at right around 60mph.

Around town, I expect that the 280SE will probably be quicker due to gearing and more agile. On the highway, the 450SE will have more go.

If your 280S what a US car, it made about 120hp which would have made it diesel slow.