1969 w115 Red on Red Tail Lenses??

[Topher39]

So what is the history with the RED on RED, smooth tail light lenses on the w115s? I have a 1969 220 with these lenses and I notice that they are hard to find, and unusual. Were they just very early style?

I also posted a note in classifieds - I would like a matching set that is intact, either Red/Red or Red/Orange, either type. (I have a chunk out of the driver's side on mine.) It's for my son's first project car.

[Shortsguy1]

In 68 they were smooth, red on red. I have no idea when the red/yellow version began, but I bet it was around the time of the huge bumpers.

Going rate for smooth, red/red tail lights on ebay appears to be $80 each. One vendors have the smooth red/yellow lights for $30.

Or somewhat locally to me, the following CL ad has been listed a few times. The prices are fair.
Mercedes parts - 114; 115 body

[Palolo]

Originally Posted by Topher39

So what is the history with the RED on RED, smooth tail light lenses on the w115s?

The smooth tail light lenses were pretty "normal" on all models up through that time, and the ones with ridges are the later style, as used on 107s, 116s and 123s. I suppose the story is more about "why the ridges" more than "why the smooth lenses".

The ridged lenses were deliberately designed that way to promote "self cleaning" and removal of road grime in wet weather by using the airflow around the lenses/ridges.

The ridges aren't tied to the bumper regs (that I've read, anyway), they were a MB safety initiative more than anything and the timing is just likely coincidental.

[JimFreeh]

When the W114/W115 was introduced in 1968, tailights were "smooth", and red turn signals. Euro cars had amber turn signals from the start of production.

For the 1970 model year, the turn lenses changed to amber for US cars. Additionally, the side marker lights became illuminated, whereas previously they were reflectors. No visual difference on the outside, but an additional hole in the fender for the bulb was now added.

For 1973, the front bumper was stepped out slightly to meet regulations, no change to rear bumper.

For 1974, taillight design changed to the ribbed design, along with the huge park bench bumpers and different front fenders, grille and hood.

The ribbed design can be subbed into the early cars, but the small bumper's vertical guard will be up against the lens, requiring the bumper to be removed to access the bulbs.

Jim

[Shortsguy1]

JimF and Palolo-
Topher and I have many of the same questions, so thanks for your responses. So not to hijack Topher's thread, but do you know when any of these changes occured (I am in the market for a w115 parts car as similar as possible to my 68)
1) auto tranny shifter move from steering column to the center console
2) transition from the huge hard steering wheel to the soft smaller one.
3) addition of head rests to front seats (my car has none)
4) loss of triangular vent window on front doors

Also, do you know if a w115 ever had a manual tranny shifter on the steering column? Thanks so much for any help you can provide.

[socalbenz]

Originally Posted by Shortsguy1

JimF and Palolo-
Topher and I have many of the same questions, so thanks for your responses. So not to hijack Topher's thread, but do you know when any of these changes occured (I am in the market for a w115 parts car as similar as possible to my 68)
1) auto tranny shifter move from steering column to the center console
2) transition from the huge hard steering wheel to the soft smaller one.
3) addition of head rests to front seats (my car has none)
4) loss of triangular vent window on front doors

Also, do you know if a w115 ever had a manual tranny shifter on the steering column? Thanks so much for any help you can provide.

I can offer what my 72 has to help narrow it down. I am sure someone just knows, but here goes anyway.

1. My auto is on the column
2. huge hard steering wheel
3. head rest installed
4. Mine has the vent windows

I don't believe there was ever a column shift manual tranny. My car has the smooth red and yellow tailights. My car also came with the non retracting seatbelts up front and lap belts in the rear.

I believe the facelift in 73 was when most of the changes occured. Specifically: bigger bumbers, loss of vent windows, retracting seat belts, soft steering wheel, ribbed taillights, dual overhead cam engine (gas) and changes to the firewall supports to accomdate the wider engine.

[Topher39]

Love the history lesson for sure, very helpful.

Shorts, on my 69 I have headrests and triangular vent windows, old style steering wheel too. My 69 also has the side markers that are lit. I have 4 on the floor as well.

Keep the style/model info coming!

[JimFreeh]

Originally Posted by Shortsguy1

JimF and Palolo-
Topher and I have many of the same questions, so thanks for your responses. So not to hijack Topher's thread, but do you know when any of these changes occured (I am in the market for a w115 parts car as similar as possible to my 68)
1) auto tranny shifter move from steering column to the center console
2) transition from the huge hard steering wheel to the soft smaller one.
3) addition of head rests to front seats (my car has none)
4) loss of triangular vent window on front doors

Also, do you know if a w115 ever had a manual tranny shifter on the steering column? Thanks so much for any help you can provide.

1) Can be either, depends how it was ordered. At least for the 73 earlier cars. Don't know for sure on the big bumper cars...
2) 1973.
3) 1969
4) 1974

4 speed manual shifter was available on column, saw a 68 220D with one.

Jim

[JimFreeh]

Another change was in 1973 when the interior trim went from leather grain to pebbly style. During this change the padding was changed to a fire resistant pad that tended to disintegrate sooner.

Pebbly texture continued in W123 until 1980 when leather grain returned.

Jim

[Mike D]

On the W115's

1: Never seen a column shifter. Doesn't mean there wasn't any but it was probably an option.
2: Large steering wheel until late '73 production run. Never seen the large wheel OEM on a '74 but it could happen.
3: Head rests were an option until 1970.
4: 1973 was the last year for "wing" windows. In 1974 the side mirrors were moved to the place where the wing was. This allowed for the "remote" adjustment feature.

Same things apply to the W114's with the possible exception of #1. The oldest 114 I've owned was a '69 and it had console shift.

All my W115's were manuals so the shifter location is just a "best guess".

[Shortsguy1]

Thanks everyone for all the great and informative responses. I would love a manual with the shifter on the column. Regardless of manufacturer (MB or whoever), they seem so rare to me that they are extra special.

[Pooka]

The column shifter thing.....

Every car in the 30's had a floor shift, but this ate up the space in the front seat where a passenger could go. Cars then also had the 'emergency brake' there as well, and a long handle was necessary on the brake so you could have some leverage to pull the thing back. The shift rod was long so you did not have to bend over to reach it.

So everyone was trying to find a way to move the shift lever and the brake lever. The brake lever was moved to the floor where you had to stand on it to make it stop the car. The shift lever was finally moved to the column, but the lever had to be long in order for you to reach it on the other side of the steering wheel.

This made for some long shift times since the lever throw was so long. This was not really important since cars did well if they made 80 hp.

But as power increased the need for shorter throw times became necessary, so it was back to the floor. This also cut production costs for right and left hand drive cars since it reduced the number of parts needed for the shifter.

Mercedes sedans had column shifters, but they were not considered high performance cars so the long shift time did not matter.

And shifting a 4-speed on the column.... Kinda weird.

[Palolo]

Originally Posted by Pooka

And shifting a 4-speed on the column.... Kinda weird.

Ever seen the Citroen shifters? They come straight back out of the dash, then bend upwards like an umbrella handle. Talk about weird.

(I guess it just goes along with all the other weirdness they have going on... I bet that way down at the bottom of the new car options list was a checkbox for "Normalcy" but is was somehow never available in the desired trim/option package... )

4-speed column shift was actually quite normal in basic model MB's, especially around the world where the automatics were an expensive option in to the mid-70s, and where in many cases, auto trans were quite rare. I recall hearing dads and uncles commenting upon seeing RoW 114s with auto trans "oooh, look, it has an automatic transmission..." LOL.

With the relatively higher production and adoption of 107s, 116s, 123s, etc. that essentially fed the explosive growth and importance of the auto-box-loving US market, starting in the late 60s, but really taking solid hold in the 70s, the column shifter started to disappear. Safety regs also relegated the belt-less central front passenger to the rear, and the long column shifter was seen as a safety issue (note the growth of the 108s column shift knob, from elegant tapered spear-tip to large soft blunt knob).

Sorry for the meandering...

[ssk831]

To help figure some of this out. 1973 W114 that has big hard wheel, vent "triangle" windows, floor auto shift (plastic/rubber knob, not smooth ball), small bumpers, headrests, smooth taillamps with yellow indicators.

I also have a couple questions. When did the cars get passenger side mirrors? And why do some have the smooth ball shift knob and some have the fat one?

[tram]

I've seen both W114/5 and W116 with manual column shift. Not common by any means, but they made them.