Engine swap W124 E320T -> W114 Coupe, some Q:s

[hismajestics]

Hello everybody. New to this forum from Finland.

I am working on a engine swap as described in the title. I have the donator (-93) already and trying to figure out what parts may be transferred to W114.

Beside the engine, the idea is to have it followed by 5 sp. Getrag and ASD. All from the donator.

Also, E320T Euro model has impressive front brakes and I'm wondering if they may also be fitted. Any ideas on this?

Many thanks
//johannes

[JimFreeh]

Anything is doable if you spend enough time and money.

The M104 engine developed from the M103 has no application in the W114 range, so merely changing engine mounts and trans crossmembers won't work. Additionally, the M103/M104 is tilted around six degrees from vertical, which guarantees custom work for the 3 mounting points.

The diff mounts are completely different, as is the method of axle attachment. Custom halfshafts and driveshafts would be a given.
Might be easier to sub in the 5 link subframe vs the semitrailing arms.

The engine compartment on a W114 is tight, might be an interference issue with the oil filter, and the starter is on the opposite side, so more possible clearance issues.

Enough time and money can solve all the problems, but this would not be a simple task...

Jim

[hismajestics]

Originally Posted by JimFreeh

Anything is doable if you spend enough time and money.

The M104 engine developed from the M103 has no application in the W114 range, so merely changing engine mounts and trans crossmembers won't work. Additionally, the M103/M104 is tilted around six degrees from vertical, which guarantees custom work for the 3 mounting points.

The diff mounts are completely different, as is the method of axle attachment. Custom halfshafts and driveshafts would be a given.
Might be easier to sub in the 5 link subframe vs the semitrailing arms.

The engine compartment on a W114 is tight, might be an interference issue with the oil filter, and the starter is on the opposite side, so more possible clearance issues.

Enough time and money can solve all the problems, but this would not be a simple task...

Jim

Thanks Jim.

I have been doing some research and yes, a W114 is tight. However, W107 300 SL (Euro?) has a M103 as original and M104 being an evolution of this engine there is a possibility to have it fitted. W107 is pretty much based on W114/115.

Also, have seen a OM606 fitted in a W115.

To have ASD in place is a big task as you pointed out. I may leave it at this stage and concentrate on the engine and gearbox.

E320 brakes won't fit but W123 will do, so, an upgrade with W126 S brakes would be the way to go. You'll learn everyday as it goes...

Btw, what do you mean by this?: sub in the 5 link subframe vs the semitrailing arms

Thanks again!

//johannes

[mercmad6.3]

Your 124 has a diff which is carried in a sub frame . the whole five link assembly can be lifted up into place and the mount position determined .you may need to shift the spring location but that that not a problem. I would go with this approach, (a freind has done it in a W111 coupe) because of the better ride you will get.
the M103 will be an easy fit intro a W114. it's not as big as the M110 and although it lays over ,the amount of space reqwuired is minimal. I have seen V8's in W115's with cowl brace so a skinny six will fit fine. The big automatic wont fit in the tunnel though. I would go a for a heavy duty 5 speed although you could possibly have to import one from Germany where they are common or France,where they are really common.

[hismajestics]

Originally Posted by mercmad6.3

Your 124 has a diff which is carried in a sub frame . the whole five link assembly can be lifted up into place and the mount position determined .you may need to shift the spring location but that that not a problem. I would go with this approach, (a freind has done it in a W111 coupe) because of the better ride you will get.
the M103 will be an easy fit intro a W114. it's not as big as the M110 and although it lays over ,the amount of space reqwuired is minimal. I have seen V8's in W115's with cowl brace so a skinny six will fit fine. The big automatic wont fit in the tunnel though. I would go a for a heavy duty 5 speed although you could possibly have to import one from Germany where they are common or France,where they are really common.

Thanks mercmad6.3 for your advice. The gearbox I have with the M104 engine is a 5 speed manual Getrag (or ZF) 717.450.

//johannes

[daddi]

A little weekend wrenching.

[hismajestics]

Technical swap is now complete. I will start another thread (cannot change the headline here??) with more detailed pics from the process and some hints for those interested in carrying out a similar swap.

Before:
210 Nm at 4500 rpm, 150 hp at 5500 rpm


After:
310 Nm at 3750 rpm, 220 hp at 5500 rpm (this motor approx. 240 hp)
R

[mercmad6.3]

I am sdo envious of the guys in Skandinavia . We are almost held under the thumb here when it comes to vehicle mods ...although we do it anyway. You can see the size difference now. You only need to go the Finn way now and add a mad turbo...

[hismajestics]

Yes, this is street legal here in FIN. The only upgrade needed are the front brakes (56mm -> 60mm piston). A banjo connector bolt-on fit from W107, W116, or the best, from W126. All with ventilated discs.

There's going to be a more comprehensive chassis upgrade also. Let me come back to that later

BR
johannes

[hismajestics]

Hello again,

thought i'd share the last news here. I've had the conversion ready and street legal since last fall. Have been testing it some 6-7000 km's after that. Freeway, city and circuit.

The car is very fast with the current ratio of 3,69:1 (open diff) as final drive and 1:1 in 5th with ZF dogleg 717.450 gearbox.





It's also very reliable. No issues what so ever.

[mercmad6.3]

great news! Are the 5 speed gearboxes wit engine easy to find in your part of the world?
There are plenty of the engines about,plus donor cars in Australia but we only had automatics.

[hismajestics]

16" Rial Mesh, 7ET23 205/55 in front and 8ET11 225/50 in rear.

[mercmad6.3]

what will happen to the pagoda buried in the background?

[hismajestics]

Originally Posted by mercmad6.3

great news! Are the 5 speed gearboxes wit engine easy to find in your part of the world?
There are plenty of the engines about,plus donor cars in Australia but we only had automatics.

5 speed boxes are plentiful, most of them with overdrive (probably in lesser engines??). I think the Getrag 717.404, which was in W201 Cosworth and 717.450 in eg. Brabus 3.6 are more rare as they are considered the strongest of Merc manuals.

Some of the diesel turbo guys here in Scandinavia consider the Merc 5 speed manuals not strong enough and they prefer Merc auto's or BMW ZF manuals. Well, Supra gearbox of course but the price...

[hismajestics]

Originally Posted by mercmad6.3

what will happen to the pagoda buried in the background?

My friend is having a technical restoration on it, fuel injection and two blown spark plug threads. Also some minor interior fix.

It's 1. series 230. He claimed the other day it will be his car when retired. He's now 43