I'd like to buy a banger => W108 or W114 <= which would you choose?

[Stretch]

G'day Folks,

With possible changes in Dutch laws concerning old diesels I'm considering buying an old petrol engined Mercedes. I want something that was born in the same year as myself - 1970.

I fancy the looks of W114 coupes from the side but I like the front of a W108 as it reminds me of my ideal vehicle => a W111 coupe

For now the cost of buying a W111 coupe is a bit out of my reach.

So far I've only considered looks - but what are they like to own?

So with that in mind my question is which would you choose?

a) W114
b) W108

If I buy either of these cars they will be very much in the banger / one wheel in the scrap yard type vehicles (and I'm not at all worried about welding which will be just as well!).

[Mike D]

Ugggh! This is a tough choice. If you get a W114 then you will be limited to either the M115 4 cylinder or the M130 6 cylinder engine. Of the two engines I'd get the M115 but it's not available in the coupe. So, if you are looking for a coupe, get the 250CE which will be fuel injected. It has it's own problems but nothing like dealing with the warped Zenith's the standard M130 has.

I don't care for the W108's but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A more complex car with a bunch of additional stuff to fix. Nice when they're "right" but a heck'uva lot more work.

[dirtyharry]

I own both of these vehicles, and I have one of your coveted W111 coupes, I find the w111 coupe to be waaay overrated. it is literally a W108 with a lower roof line and more wood and 2 less doors, theoretically should handle exactly the same as a W108 although it may be slightly longer. and handling is not either of these 2 vehicles strong suits, but its the idea, does an esthetic really justify double/triple digit value .

as far as the W114/115 vs W108/109 its not really a fair comparison, the 114 is more or less a baby merc, smaller but heavier ironically. I was shocked at how cheap the 114 feels inside. lower gears and less power output from 114's.

it really comes down to personal choice, I find the W108 to be perfect, but I like big ass sedans. so if you fancy something a little smaller and perkier I'd take the W114/115.

I dont find the 108 to be any more complicated then the stroke8, unless you are referring to D-jetronic which was ironically first introduced in the W114 250.

[Stretch]

Thanks for the replies folks

I know I'm gonna actually go and drive them to see how they feel.

I've read that the W114/W115s are better riding than the W123 - I kind of imagine that the W108 is a bit more Battle Star Galactica much like the feeling of a W123 especially with worn suspension...

If I went for an older W114 would it be worth getting the M110 engine version and swapping out the ugly W123 like steering wheel for a proper one?

(sorry my opinions are still firmly fixed with the looks!)

[dirtyharry]

the W114/115 can out ride/handle any 108, not so sure about the air stuff on 109. I found the later style steering wheel to be a little offensive at first, but it has grown on me. the 114 as a whole car has grown on me. it still has all of the things about the W108 I like, in a cheaper smaller package. The M110 is a rather disappointing engine, they designed a DOHC/Twin cam 6 to breathe, but it fails to really breathe 5K-red line. I assume the injected version is a little better, but I dunno, it just doesn't really move like I want it too... with that said these are proper Mercedes cars, and I personally feel that by the time we hit 1976, Mercedes among other car manufacturers had just sort of lost their flair. but my personal taste in cars is rather period specific, and that's exactly why I don't own a modern car anymore, I just don't like them.

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by dirtyharry

...and that's exactly why I don't own a modern car anymore, I just don't like them.

...and that is exactly why I'm not going to be buying anything new either.

I'm surprised that you still struggle along with a carburetor instead of changing over to fuel injection though. Fuel injection has been one of the things that I love about diesel engines - having suffered sticking automatic chokes and leaky this and leaky that...

...the only carburetor that I ever liked was a SU on an old Morris Marina that I once owned (and that was probably because it looked nice and well built) - topping up the dashpot with oil was almost a pleasure!

[Mojoan]

Originally Posted by Stretch

...the only carburetor that I ever liked was a SU on an old Morris Marina that I once owned (and that was probably because it looked nice and well built) - topping up the dashpot with oil was almost a pleasure!

Have you ever watched Top Gear? There is no such thing as a well built Morris Marina

In all seriousness though; have you seen this 250SE on mobile.de?

pro:
-W108
-Aircon
-Manual
-Nicer old gearstick and steering wheel
-should be within your range; i.e. the netherlands
-(apparently it has cruise control, which should be ultra rare for a factory manual...)

con:
-might be out of your price range
-seats are shot

I would be all over this car if I had the money

[JimFreeh]

Originally Posted by dirtyharry

the W114/115 can out ride/handle any 108, not so sure about the air stuff on 109. I found the later style steering wheel to be a little offensive at first, but it has grown on me. the 114 as a whole car has grown on me. it still has all of the things about the W108 I like, in a cheaper smaller package. The M110 is a rather disappointing engine, they designed a DOHC/Twin cam 6 to breathe, but it fails to really breathe 5K-red line. I assume the injected version is a little better, but I dunno, it just doesn't really move like I want it too... with that said these are proper Mercedes cars, and I personally feel that by the time we hit 1976, Mercedes among other car manufacturers had just sort of lost their flair. but my personal taste in cars is rather period specific, and that's exactly why I don't own a modern car anymore, I just don't like them.

If your target is the lower end of the market, the W114/W115 is hands down the better choice.

Take this from a serial owner of both types.

I terms of hardware and body, both cars are compare closely.
Both bodies rust viciously, complexity (equipment) is about the same, similar interior layout and controls, especially the 72 and earlier slash8s. The 73 interior redesign introduced a poorer quality MB tex and seat pads. Early interiors hold up much better than later ones.

The killer blow to a cheap W108 is the front suspension. Compared to the modern double wishbone, ball jointed W114/W115 suspension, the king pin W108 appears positively prewar. Whilst the W114/W115 suspension is long lived, the W108's can deteriorate quickly if not religiously greased plus it's not cheap to repair. Couple that to the remarkable agility of the newer chassis, and the slash8 is a much better bet.

Regards to engines: The 4 cylinder 220 is only peppy if your used to a 220D. None of the gas engines will impress with fuel economy, but the M130 is a decent performer and still quite usable today. As you get later into the years, emissions kills the engines. I own a M110 280SL, and have owned a couple of other euro M110 cars. I assure you, the euro M110 engine is no slouch with 185 hp on tap and Mine have revved up quite nicely.

I've found the 71-72 years to be the sweet spot for W114 cars. Lots of updates make for a more pleasant car, and before increasingly onerous regulations started taking their toll

Again, I love both models, each series has it's high points. However, on a budget, one can do much better with a slash 8.

Jim

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by Mojoan

Have you ever watched Top Gear? There is no such thing as a well built Morris Marina

In all seriousness though; have you seen this 250SE on mobile.de?

pro:
-W108
-Aircon
-Manual
-Nicer old gearstick and steering wheel
-should be within your range; i.e. the netherlands
-(apparently it has cruise control, which should be ultra rare for a factory manual...)

con:
-might be out of your price range
-seats are shot

I would be all over this car if I had the money

Thanks for the link - that's actually a Dutch car for sale within easy reach of where I live. Down side is the garage that is selling it...

...I won't elaborate!

EDIT:-

I forgot to mention the Morris Marina that I owned must have been the one and only good one ever made. It cost me about two hundred pounds when it was virtually impossible to buy anything for less than one thousand pounds and I never not ever touched the points which are meant to last about 10 miles or so before they need to be renewed. To date it was the most reliable car I've ever owned (I've had some real bangers!).

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by JimFreeh

If your target is the lower end of the market, the W114/W115 is hands down the better choice.

Take this from a serial owner of both types.

I terms of hardware and body, both cars are compare closely.
Both bodies rust viciously, complexity (equipment) is about the same, similar interior layout and controls, especially the 72 and earlier slash8s. The 73 interior redesign introduced a poorer quality MB tex and seat pads. Early interiors hold up much better than later ones.

The killer blow to a cheap W108 is the front suspension. Compared to the modern double wishbone, ball jointed W114/W115 suspension, the king pin W108 appears positively prewar. Whilst the W114/W115 suspension is long lived, the W108's can deteriorate quickly if not religiously greased plus it's not cheap to repair. Couple that to the remarkable agility of the newer chassis, and the slash8 is a much better bet.

Regards to engines: The 4 cylinder 220 is only peppy if your used to a 220D. None of the gas engines will impress with fuel economy, but the M130 is a decent performer and still quite usable today. As you get later into the years, emissions kills the engines. I own a M110 280SL, and have owned a couple of other euro M110 cars. I assure you, the euro M110 engine is no slouch with 185 hp on tap and Mine have revved up quite nicely.

I've found the 71-72 years to be the sweet spot for W114 cars. Lots of updates make for a more pleasant car, and before increasingly onerous regulations started taking their toll

Again, I love both models, each series has it's high points. However, on a budget, one can do much better with a slash 8.

Jim

Thanks for all of the advice Jim - do you happen to know when the M110 engine first made its appearance in a W114? I saw a 1969 one advertised last night that had a M110 engine in it - I assumed it was modified...

[dirtyharry]

I assure you, the euro M110 engine is no slouch with 185 hp on tap and Mine have revved up quite nicely.

still you figure roughly 100,000 114's were built and I'm sure that less then half of them were "euro" models. chances of finding a euro M110 are very slim. not to mention the M110 didn't show up until 1972, roughly half way through the production run. they built roughly 100,000 280s W108's.

Whilst the W114/W115 suspension is long lived, the W108's can deteriorate quickly if not religiously greased plus it's not cheap to repair.

I completely agree with this, and I spend 20min a month crawling around on the ground with a grease gun.

[JimFreeh]

Originally Posted by dirtyharry

still you figure roughly 100,000 114's were built and I'm sure that less then half of them were "euro" models. chances of finding a euro M110 are very slim. not to mention the M110 didn't show up until 1972, roughly half way through the production run. they built roughly 100,000 280s W108's.

My preference in the slash 8 is the M130, not the M110. Comment was to address impression that M110 engines were slugs. My M110s were (are) in W123 and R107 chassis cars.

Jim

[Marrs]

As you seem enthralled by the idea of the styling, go for the coupe. I find they really are a breath of fresh air compared to common sedans. If you plan to keep it for a long time don;t pour cash into it, just keep it clean, running and happy. Perhaps at a later date you can then buy a W111 coupe. By the way, what does a car like this cost in your country, in equivalent dollars? I know in many European countries the local cars are very expensive and buyers can buy and import a US car for less than they could buy it for locally. Your import taxes may restrict this option, but if you really want a coupe they are abundant in the US in decent to good condition for less money than the equivalent car would cost in Germany for example.

[meltedpanda]

Id vote for the W114/5 - great cars, easy to work on, parts are around and they are just fun
Miss mine..

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by Marrs

As you seem enthralled by the idea of the styling, go for the coupe. I find they really are a breath of fresh air compared to common sedans. If you plan to keep it for a long time don;t pour cash into it, just keep it clean, running and happy. Perhaps at a later date you can then buy a W111 coupe. By the way, what does a car like this cost in your country, in equivalent dollars? I know in many European countries the local cars are very expensive and buyers can buy and import a US car for less than they could buy it for locally. Your import taxes may restrict this option, but if you really want a coupe they are abundant in the US in decent to good condition for less money than the equivalent car would cost in Germany for example.

At the moment the cost in euros kind of feels like the cost in USD so for the emotional wrench of parting with your green it is about the same!

Today's exchange rate would give me about a 25% reduction in ticket price though (1 USD == 76 euro cents); but the purchase cost doesn't include import taxes and shipping. I guess shipping on a roll on roll off would cost the best part of 1000USD to get the car to Rotterdam perhaps more. I'd expect to pay at least 20% of the purchase price in taxes and then I have to get the car registered...

It isn't going to work out that way because I can probably get a wreck of a W115 for around the 1000 euros mark at the moment - a better condition W114 coupe will probably cost me about 2500 euros if I'm quick.

I can probably get a non running car for about 500 - 800 euros.

I'm really considering a banger - I've just had a thought though; perhaps banger means something else in America - I guess you guys would say beater (though that has slightly different connotations in England).

Although I haven't actually been comparing the condition of cars the prices in Germany for W114/W115 models seem very high. Many people in Holland advertise them in Germany (like the link posted above) 'cos they have visions of a rich German swooping down and paying more than a Dutchman would.