Quick trivia question RE: Keys

[tram]

What year did Mercedes begin keying all locks on their cars to use a single master key? I found that August 1969 (1970 model year) was when it started for W113- was it the same for all models? Many thanks.

[Pooka]

I think you are correct on the 1969 year. Before that every Mercedes I have ever seen had a key for the doors, trunk and glove box and one for the ignition.

I can remember when the one key thing came into being. It was like 'What took them so long?'

My 1971 has a key for all locks and a Valet key for the doors and ignition. The Master key fits all locks.

And on the subject of keys..... When cutting a key by hand, which is easy when you know how, always cut from the ignition since it uses the most pins. If you cut from the door you will have a door and trunk key but no ignition key.

And never cut from the glove box since it uses the fewest pins of all the locks on the car.

[ScooterABC]

My 1967 250 S (108) has separate keys. My 1968 280 S is single key. Both match the data card so for W108 cars it would be somewhere around 1968...

[ScooterABC]

Originally Posted by Pooka

And on the subject of keys..... When cutting a key by hand, which is easy when you know how, always cut from the ignition since it uses the most pins. If you cut from the door you will have a door and trunk key but no ignition key.

And never cut from the glove box since it uses the fewest pins of all the locks on the car.

It's a lot easier to get the code from a door handle or the glove box latch or from Mercedes and order a key from key-men....

[Pooka]

Originally Posted by ScooterABC

It's a lot easier to get the code from a door handle or the glove box latch or from Mercedes and order a key from key-men....

That's true for most people, but after you have done a few of them you can knock one our in about ten minutes.

All you need is the blank, a small triangle file and a small pair of pliers.

[tram]

Hmmm. This seems like a tough nut to crack.

I have a customer with a 1968 or 9 280SEc, and the key he's got fits the ignition, but not the doors or trunk. I have no way of knowing if the ignition has been changed or if the door/ trunk key is just missing.

I was actually hoping that someone out there had the info. If you do, please post it.

[Fulcrum525]

Originally Posted by Pooka

That's true for most people, but after you have done a few of them you can knock one our in about ten minutes.

All you need is the blank, a small triangle file and a small pair of pliers.

And a lot of skill

[ScooterABC]

Originally Posted by tram

Hmmm. This seems like a tough nut to crack.

I have a customer with a 1968 or 9 280SEc, and the key he's got fits the ignition, but not the doors or trunk. I have no way of knowing if the ignition has been changed or if the door/ trunk key is just missing.

I was actually hoping that someone out there had the info. If you do, please post it.

It's easier than you think. Quite possibly a poor key was cut that works in the ignition but nothing else. Does the key FIT in the ignition, door, and glove box locks? In other words, was this a single-key car? (I think the answer is yes). Or is it a totally different keyway?

If it is a single key car, take out the glove box lock (easy) and see if there is a key code written on the side. It will be something like HZ6539 or something. Write that down and put the glove box lock back in. Also, have customer get the "data card" from the Mercedes classic center. He will need to provide proof of ownership - a vehicle registration will do. They will email/fax as desired. The data card will have the key code(s) on it. Specifically tell them that you want the key codes and as long as you have proof of ownership they will provide them quickly. You can probably confirm the key code by taking out one of the door handles where the key code is (usually) stamped also.

If it is a 3-key car, get the data card as described above and order the keys either from MB or from keymen.com . EASY. Is there a matching locked gas cap?

Scott

[Palolo]

The key that came with my car (a recut) works in doors/trunk and ignition but not glove box. I thought glove box lock was replaced til I tried the spare key, (original) which looks like a normal key, but no large flat part, just two little ears and a hole for a ring. It worked on the glove box, so now I want to use it to remake another normal key.

[ScooterABC]

Originally Posted by Palolo

The key that came with my car (a recut) works in doors/trunk and ignition but not glove box. I thought glove box lock was replaced til I tried the spare key, (original) which looks like a normal key, but no large flat part, just two little ears and a hole for a ring. It worked on the glove box, so now I want to use it to remake another normal key.

Both of your keys are cut the same. One blank is for a "valet" key, which will not open the glove box, the other blank is a "driver" key, which will open everything.

[Palolo]

That's what I initially thought too, but the ridge/cut profiles are same, as are the key shapes when looked at from the tip end. Isn't the valet key not supposed to be able to lock the trunk?

I know on 123s, the valet key uses a different key stock with a groove missing down the length of it, but these are "the same".

My normal key is an ilco-MB15, likely a hardware store copy, and the original is a huf/hup with the key code stamped on it.

[ScooterABC]

Originally Posted by Palolo

That's what I initially thought too, but the ridge/cut profiles are same, as are the key shapes when looked at from the tip end. Isn't the valet key not supposed to be able to lock the trunk?

Depends on who you ask. I don't remember on Mercedes since I have never had a use for a valet key. On Jaguar, the valet key opens everything except the glove box.

Originally Posted by Palolo

I know on 123s, the valet key uses a different key stock with a groove missing down the length of it, but these are "the same".

If both keys don't fit into the glove box keyway, but both keys DO fit into the other keyways, they are not the same. It is quite likely that the valet key is just _slightly_ thicker than the driver key.

[tram]

Originally Posted by ScooterABC

It's easier than you think. Quite possibly a poor key was cut that works in the ignition but nothing else. Does the key FIT in the ignition, door, and glove box locks? In other words, was this a single-key car? (I think the answer is yes). Or is it a totally different keyway?

If it is a single key car, take out the glove box lock (easy) and see if there is a key code written on the side. It will be something like HZ6539 or something. Write that down and put the glove box lock back in. Also, have customer get the "data card" from the Mercedes classic center. He will need to provide proof of ownership - a vehicle registration will do. They will email/fax as desired. The data card will have the key code(s) on it. Specifically tell them that you want the key codes and as long as you have proof of ownership they will provide them quickly. You can probably confirm the key code by taking out one of the door handles where the key code is (usually) stamped also.

If it is a 3-key car, get the data card as described above and order the keys either from MB or from keymen.com . EASY. Is there a matching locked gas cap?

Scott

The key we have for it fits ignition, but doesn't seem to even want to slide into any of the other locks.

Hence... my original question: Should this year and model have one key, or not?. If all the locks/ handles, etc. have been changed out from donor cars, the MB key info really doesn't help me much. At that point I need to find out what the owner wants to do. But first, I just need to know a DATE like there is for the W113 to see what the original key setup should have been, e.g., are we possibly just missing other keys, or is this a complletely incorrect Frankencar?

[ScooterABC]

Originally Posted by tram

The key we have for it fits ignition, but doesn't seem to even want to slide into any of the other locks.

Hence... my original question: Should this year and model have one key, or not?.

Well I'm sorry but you don't know if your car is 1968 or 1969 and we don't know the answer for sure! Is the ignition key a double-side key or a single-side key? If it is a double side key then the ignition lock is from a one-key car and may or may not be original to the car.

Originally Posted by tram

If all the locks/ handles, etc. have been changed out from donor cars, the MB key info really doesn't help me much.

Based on what you have said so far, (i.e., the ignition key doesn't fit into the keyway of the doors or glovebox, etc) it is by FAR more likely that you are dealing with a 3 key car. IN WHICH CASE get the key codes from Mercedes by getting the DATA CARD from Mercedes as described previously. You are making this WAY more complicated than it needs to be. The datacard for the car will either show ONE keycode for the car or THREE key codes, labeled in German what they go to.

Originally Posted by tram

At that point I need to find out what the owner wants to do. But first, I just need to know a DATE like there is for the W113 to see what the original key setup should have been, e.g., are we possibly just missing other keys, or is this a complletely incorrect Frankencar?

No you DON'T need to know a date. It's approximately this time that the car changed from 3 keys to 1 key and given that your ignition key doesn't fit any of the other locks, that would be consistent with a 3 key car. There is absolutely no indication that this is anything except someone who only has one of the three CORRECT keys for the car. GET THE DATACARD.

Scott

[tram]

Originally Posted by ScooterABC

Well I'm sorry but you don't know if your car is 1968 or 1969 and we don't know the answer for sure! Is the ignition key a double-side key or a single-side key? If it is a double side key then the ignition lock is from a one-key car and may or may not be original to the car.


Based on what you have said so far, (i.e., the ignition key doesn't fit into the keyway of the doors or glovebox, etc) it is by FAR more likely that you are dealing with a 3 key car. IN WHICH CASE get the key codes from Mercedes by getting the DATA CARD from Mercedes as described previously. You are making this WAY more complicated than it needs to be. The datacard for the car will either show ONE keycode for the car or THREE key codes, labeled in German what they go to.

No you DON'T need to know a date. It's approximately this time that the car changed from 3 keys to 1 key and given that your ignition key doesn't fit any of the other locks, that would be consistent with a 3 key car. There is absolutely no indication that this is anything except someone who only has one of the three CORRECT keys for the car. GET THE DATACARD.

Scott

So you don't have an answer. Fair enough. Does anyone else?

The ignition key is cut on both sides. Given the history of what I've uncovered on this car, I think it's more than a 50% chance that it's just a bunch of parts from different cars thrown together.

The reason for my ORIGINAL QUESTION was to establish a parameter for moving forward. Your posting this other info may be helpful in a different circumstance, but it does NOT answer any of my issues. Sorry, it just DOESN'T.

All I want to know is WHEN did Mercedes start using a single master key on W111 chassis cars??? That's it. I know I can get a data card from MB!!! I don't WANT a data card, I want the DATE or CHASSIS BREAK of the change!

I don't mean to be rude, but geeze-o-peas-Louise, it's JUST A SIMPLE QUESTION, LOL!