Would you roll this wagon?

[Tomguy]

Originally Posted by Marrs

I guess we can talk about those cars since they are part Mercedes. I wish they had made the Charger as a 2-door, the lines are definitely already there, but they mastered it as a sedan, good call. I liked the 300 when it first came out as well, and saw a couple of Magnum's with 300 front clips done by individual owners.

Yeah, don't remind me that they're part Mercedes, I KNOW. It's why they cheapened the interior & suspension bits as much as they possibly could, to squeeze every last penny out of their American cash cow. My pre-DB 300M has fewer rattles and squeaks and interior wear than my much newer, much lower-mileage Charger

Apparently it takes an Italian to fix a German mistake because the newer ones had all those issues fixed and the interiors are a step ahead of the previous generation cars, not one behind. I'd never buy a modern-era MB knowing how cheaply they make their stuff. It really is true, in the 90s it was all downhill for their stuff!

[Renntag]

On topic, the W111T rendering is a start of something interesting. I think the rear is far to large. It over powers the car.

I am fond of all wagons and love the second post in this thread. Oh to have a 60's vintage wagon repowered with a 603/606.

The new benz wagon is gorgeous in its own right. Those of us that prefer the older cars perhaps arent drawn to the new cars. I appreciate the new cars as technologically advanced appliances for a modern life. With that said, I find that they are so complicated that they have lost the character of the earlier cars. There is nothing wrong with this, just a comparison of old to new.

[Coastal220]

Originally Posted by Marrs

Well I'm the artist but I accept your opinion as I never shy away from criticism. That was an iPad doodle when I was lounging in the hammock a couple of days ago so I didn't spend much time on it, just wanted to knock out the overall shape since I was always curious. I can see the general consensus is "please do not ever build that car!" lol

Haha... jeez Marrs, I feel bad. I should have looked more closely at the page because I know you do car art. Criticism is healthy but I wouldn't have been so quick with it knowing this was your work.

[Marrs]

Originally Posted by Coastal220

Haha... jeez Marrs, I feel bad. I should have looked more closely at the page because I know you do car art. Criticism is healthy but I wouldn't have been so quick with it knowing this was your work.

Please, not at all! I sell and exhibit work so believe me that I have heard it all before and it truly is useful when it's given as an honest opinion. Thanks but the apology is unnecessary my friend.

Renntag, good observations about old vs. new. I actually love that CLS wagon but wish they did this treatment with the previous car, but it was ground-breaking enough when it was built so they probably didn't want to push the envelope too much. Modern cars have their place, specifically when safety is paramount, I tend to drive the vintage car around town and on weekend jaunts, but our car with airbags, AWD, traction control, etc., (Subaru) is best when I have a car load of people to get to their destination, bad weather, etc.

I wonder, does anyone else feel slightly overwhelmed by all the buttons and gadgets in modern cars after spending time in their old timer? I drive vintage-to-new ratio of about 8:1 so my perspective is definitely vintage oriented. I had a GLK as a loaner and I was so distracted by the dash that I couldn't wait to give it back.

[Renntag]

Like anything, it just takes time/exposure to get used to the controls. Sure, on an older vehicle there may be less, but even across platforms on vintage vehicles there is a learning curve. I'd like to see someone jump into a old unimog and just "drive it". Not so easy unless you are familiar with the platform. Add a nav panel and a few more buttons and you go from "what next" to "I think I am overwhelmed".

As to safety, I am not 100% sold on airbags. I mean, they decapitate children. As much talk about airbags and crash tests as there is today, how many reading this have ever taken the proactive stance to get advanced level driver training? I'd bet pretty close to less than 1 in 100. Put me in any old vehicle and in most cases I can save my occupants by having the skills to control an automobile. Most crashes today are due to a lack of proper training.

To agree with Marrs, I also prefer the old stuff as it just has more character. I am actively searching for a 50s vintage truck. Same cost as a new truck, more character. Does the same thing. Hauls stuff.

Happy Easter everyone.

[Coastal220]

Originally Posted by Renntag

Like anything, it just takes time/exposure to get used to the controls. Sure, on an older vehicle there may be less, but even across platforms on vintage vehicles there is a learning curve. I'd like to see someone jump into a old unimog and just "drive it". Not so easy unless you are familiar with the platform. Add a nav panel and a few more buttons and you go from "what next" to "I think I am overwhelmed".

As to safety, I am not 100% sold on airbags. I mean, they decapitate children. As much talk about airbags and crash tests as there is today, how many reading this have ever taken the proactive stance to get advanced level driver training? I'd bet pretty close to less than 1 in 100. Put me in any old vehicle and in most cases I can save my occupants by having the skills to control an automobile. Most crashes today are due to a lack of proper training.

To agree with Marrs, I also prefer the old stuff as it just has more character. I am actively searching for a 50s vintage truck. Same cost as a new truck, more character. Does the same thing. Hauls stuff.

Happy Easter everyone.

Absolutely. And I couldn't agree more on the truck comment. Our notions of "value" can be pretty odd sometimes. I hear people on this site talk about not wanting to invest $400 a car worth $2,000, and I think to myself, "worth $2,000 to whom?" It's only worth $2,000 when it comes time to sell it. And if you're not selling it, then why shouldn't a well-tuned Mercedes from the 70s be worth just as much as one from 2013 -- if not more?

When cruising down Highway 1 in my 220 with the crank windows down and the mono Becker playing my favorite tune, you couldn't pay me to step into a new Mercedes that is "worth" more money. And in this sense, the new Mercedes isn't. Value limited to dollar amounts is a very limited idea of value.

The notion of character raises some interesting questions. What is character? Nostalgia in material form? Material that tells a story? I think, for me anyway, this is it. But one day today's cars will be reflected up and seen as possessing character; what will the difference be between 60s and 70s classics, antiques, and a 2013 Mercedes in year 2043? There will be a difference in character, it will speak to a different era, a different type of workmanship, and our standards for character will be forced to shift, adapt, or a new category will emerge to accommodate them.

[Marrs]

Originally Posted by Coastal220

Value limited to dollar amounts is a very limited idea of value.

Bingo! Very well said!

Originally Posted by Coastal220

what will the difference be between 60s and 70s classics, antiques, and a 2013 Mercedes in year 2043?

Of course by 2043 we will only be able to compare the relative character of our "then vintage" cars once a year on an approved track or on private property since we heathens driving ourselves will surely not be allowed to mingle on the roadways full of self-driving cars. I've actually wondered about that several times, if self-driving cars dominate then they will regulate these cars off the road. Progress has no nostalgia.

[Renntag]

Guys, this is becoming quite and interesting dialogue. I agree that value is totally determined by those writing the check. I must say I am guilty of looking at 'book value' of a car and not wanting to invest further and be on the losing side. When it comes to 'some' of my older cars, if I plan to keep them forever, then it is irrelevant. The only caveat is RUST. If a vehicle has too much cancer then I tend to put the brakes on the spending. In this case it is best to start with a cleaner canvas.

I have a diesel suburban that is in need of some monetary injection. I have been looking for a replacement as a comparison, fix mine or buy one that is turn key. They arent out there. So I am about to bite the bullet and put money into our favourite family truckster.

As to the old truck mention, I have a late model truck that is nice, luxurious, but the taxes on it are crazy. 1100, 1000, 900, and now just over 800 this year. It spends most of it's time sitting and what I have paid in taxes on it the last 6 years, I could have purchased a basic truck that is below the tax threshold and costs $25/year for a sticker. (Still painful as this has nothing to do with registration or inspection). So I am selling the truck to get some thing old but ready to use that won't bleed me (as much) and takes the cool cake to fun town. (so to speak).

The new car/old car dialogue will never change. Look at home buyers. Some want a brand new house regardless of character or individuality. My wife and I prefer OLD homes. 80-100 years old minimum. Ours was built in 1936. We have friends that couldnt handle living in an old home. Having to fix stuff? Having to deal with old things that need addressing? NO way. They also would trade in their car every 3 years. Nothing wrong with that as clint eastwood said "A man's gotta know his limitations".

I will leave you with this: while I check out and appreciate many of the new cars on the market today, I still can't bring myself to buying one when for the same amount of money I can buy a fully restored 'vintage' vehicle that is far more to my liking.

[Marrs]

Originally Posted by Renntag

I will leave you with this: while I check out and appreciate many of the new cars on the market today, I still can't bring myself to buying one when for the same amount of money I can buy a fully restored 'vintage' vehicle that is far more to my liking.

Interesting dialogue indeed! I'll put any amount of money into a keeper, and I do tend to keep my cars for very long periods and this coupe may very well be a "forever car" for me, even if I add a few more later.

I realized that early on too thankfully about what you can buy for the outlay. A new car will not only cost a set amount which could buy something vintage and in amazing condition, but will also cost more to run, insure, etc., in most cases. Even considering something like an early 2000's Jaguar XK, let's say you can pick one up for less than the cheapest Toyota available new, and still spend on repairs for a couple of years without reaching the purchase price of said Toyota. What about buying 3 or 4 great old cars, especially American cars from the 30's-50's, they are terrific bargains and will cost even less over time to own. We all still likely need at least one modern car, but even those I buy as CPO vehicles to stack the odds.

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Originally Posted by uberwgn

If a wagon can be "sexy", this is it !!

Even if you like the sinister reptilian styling (and alot of people must like it, given that it looks like every new Hyundai or Kia or Toyota) it's sole functional advantage is aerodynamics.
The low curved roofline and tiny windows restrict vision, cargo-room and interior space.
Even as much as I prefer the styling on my W123 TD, the rear hatch window-angle does cut into cargo room more than I'd like.

So far as new technology is concerned, attention is starting to focus on the proliferation of touch-screen systems and their contribution to driver-distraction.
Personally, I can't wait to get rid of the Asian Blaupunkt CD-radio the PO installed in my TD.
With it's colored jukebox display, tiny buttons, and Menus to scroll through - talk about distracted-driving.
Can't wait to swap in some old thing, like a Becker Europa, with large round knobs and/or big buttons that I can just operate without having to pull off the road!

Happy Motoring, Mark