New Headliner & Rear Window Seal in my w115!

[Topher39]

I sewed a new headliner using the old, torn up headliner for a pattern. Found some off white vinyl at JoAnn Fabric that had a slight fabric pattern, made a nice look for the headliner, thicker than stock, better for sound absorbtion AND $15 in the bargin bin for 4 yards! Came out great, installation was not bad at all, and it looks like a billion dollars compared to the old. I am very picky, and I have to say - perfection (I guess I got lucky!)

So, I have my new URO window seal in place, complete with the metal trim in the car, without breaking the window. Was it a *****, Oh Yes, took my 2 tries, but it's in and looks great. Fit is good. What a weight off - now I need to go buy myself a beer to go along with the feeling of RELEIF that it's done.

Chris

[Shortsguy1]

Well done! That sounds great. I am jealous! Could you take a photo when you get a chance?

[shadetree77]

yes, i'd like to see a pic too. i need to redo the headliner in my W116

[thorsen]

Originally Posted by shadetree77

yes, i'd like to see a pic too. i need to redo the headliner in my W116

I've done headliners in a W114/115 and a W116. The W116 is much easier - on the W114/115 the headliner is secured under the front/rear glass seals and IIRC the sides are under the door seals.
The W116 has plastic trim on all 4 sides that means you don't have to fit it under the seals.

[Coastal220]

A third request for photos here.

Did you find comprehensive instructions for doing the window seals here in the forum? My 115 came with a complete set of MB seals but I'm waiting to put them in--it has me pretty nervous. I keep the car in a garage so for now it's not much of a concern. Still, needs to be done.

[Topher39]

I will shoot some photos today for sure, just waiting for the sun to come up and the temps to warm up a bit. It's blowing 25-30mph, and it's 35° in sunny Arizona!


Window Seal Replacement - Yes, I referenced a few posts/threads on this forum for general info, as well as other online references for that style of window seal replacement. Most cars of that 60s-70s era use the same technique to install a window seal. The most challenging part was installing and keeping the aluminum outer trim IN the seal, while you get the seal and the window in the car. It was a total B**** with a CAPITAL B. It honestly took me more time and energy getting the trim to stay in the seal than getting the window in the car. It took me 3 attempts to install the window, the third try was a charm and was much easier because I learned valuble lessons along the way. I had done a window seal replacement on a VW before, but beyond that I am no professional.

My Tips / Experience:

1. I cut the old seal away from the window and the aluminum trim piece so I did not have to pull and distort the trim. Do not try and pry the trim from the old seal while the window is on the car. The trim bends/distorts if you look at it wrong - if you get that trim out of whack, you will never get it to sit in the new seal correctly. Understand that the trim has several angles and curves and if you screw with it, it will just seat in the new trim one place, and pop out the next - UGH! I had to play with bending it "just so" here and there, to get it to fit right. I almost "ditched" the trim all together to save my sanity, and understand why the VW folks usually do, even when the corret seal is available to accommodate the trim.

2. Make sure you clean the glass edge well before you put the rubber seal onto the glass. Be carefull you don't stress the glass, it gets brittle with age and use.

3. Put the nylon cord in/under the new seal's "flap" BEFORE inserting the exterior trim pieces into the rubber, otherwise just your movements can cause the trim to be "expelled" from the seal when your trying to install the string. You want to insert the cord starting from the bottom of the window and ending at the bottom, overlapping the start of the cord by 10". Tape the ends of the cord to the window so it is not in the way when you set it into the frame - it's these little things that will really save the day.

4. Insert the aluminum trim using soapy water. You can't get it in dry. You will have a challenge here, especially the upper corners. The URO, aftermarket trim I used, does not have the corners molded in, I believe the stock MB trim does, and that would really help matters.

5. I let the window with the seal and trim in place, sit for a few hours to help the rubber better retain the trim pieces. The idea here is the rubber will conform a bit around the bottom edges of the trim piece that is inserted into the seal - it is arrow shapped to help the trim stay in the channel once inserted. At this point you need a break anyway . . . walk away, just walk away

6. I placed the window with seal in the window frame, centering top/bottom/side/side. Make sure the bottom of the seal/window is pushed as far forward, up against the window frame as possible. Use a paint brush and "lube" the seal and window frame with plenty very soapy water. (Don't use anything but soapy water, no silicone based products and certainly no oil based products - and KY Jelly only makes the rubber more sticky and creates more friction as it starts to dry ).

7. You set the bottom of the window first. Pulling the string out of the channel pulls the seal's rubber flap up and over the frame edge, and in so doing, the seal/window is pulled into the window frame. Starting from the bottom center, I pull about 6" of the string on the right side, then I pull about 6" of the string on the left - that way you seat the window edges equally and it SHOULD self center the window within the frame. I had two people on the outside of the car to apply gentle pressure on the window, AND the critical, outside trim pieces so the trim stays in the seal! - If the outer trim comes out, your about screwed for getting it back in (though I managed to get one side back in when it started to pop, it took me 30 min of extreme frustration and cursing - my hands are still sore!). Work your way up and around the window, change the angle of the pull to accommodate the seal flaps movement - I swear it's like magic!

Take your time - You have to take your time, plan ahead and be relaxed about it - you can't rush this. Oh, and I found using 1/8", 40lb test, braided nylon cord works best. While I liked the idea of another's suggestion of coated electrical wire - don't do it, I did, and it broke on me twice - and it was fairly heavy gauge, copper braided wire. If the string/wire/cord you choose breaks during the process, your done, a no go, start over, do not pass go!

Yes, the window seal replacement scared me silly, took me 3 times to get right but it's done and you can do it too. Just plan ahead, get some extra hands and stay calm. Oh yeah, don't break the glass!

Headliner

Rear attachment of the Headliner - For the headliner on the w115 you have to remove the rear window to install. The window seal sits on top of the headliner edge for the top and sides of the rear window. The rear window needs to be removed so you can fold and glue the headliner edge over the flange of the window frame - no way around that for the rear.

The Front of the Headliner - The front of the headliner can easily be attached to the inside,front edge, of the roof without removing the glass. There is enough surface area that is wide and flat, to glue the headliner to, and there is trim pieces that go on TOP of that front headliner area that help hold it in place. As soon as I glued the front edge to that surface, I knew I has home free - it made a rock solid glue surface.

The Sides over the doors - The side edges of the headliner, above the front and rear doors, are glued to the lip/flange that holds the edge trim that follows most of the door's opening. That edge trim is aluminum and pinches to the lip and is easy to remove. That trim edge sits on top of, and pinches over the headliner material and the door opening flange, creating a clean safe edge. Contact cement holds the edges of the headliner to all edges firmly, the trim does not really hold the headliner, though it will add a bit more tension to the material that you are stretching tight.

Sewing - Sewing the headliner is not difficult, your basically just sewing straight lines to create pockets for the metal bows to slide into. Those metal bows plug into rubber grommet like attachments in the side wall of the roof, pulling the headliner up by the pockets.

Headliner Pattern - I found that I could make a new headliner by measuring the old one for the pocket locations, the balance of the material you cut over-size so that you have more than enough material that you can pull taught and glue onto the lip edges. Once you pull/fold/glue all the edge of the headliner to the car, you cut away the excess with a razor knife. The tricky part is planning and sewing the large patches of material that make up the two rear pillars - that material needs to be added to the main center section of the headliner - you can't get material wide enough to cut the roof and side pillars out of one piece. If you follow your old headliner, you will see how it is done. A single seam attaches the pillar material to the main body of the headliner - just leave yourself plenty of extra material for those pillars so that you can pull and glue them into place.

Sewing Machine - I used the cheapest Brother sewing machine from Walmart, and used button thread. The machine handles the vinyl material no problem!

Padding under the headliner - Under the headliner, you will find that there is a factory material that was glued some of the edges of the roof line to pad the headliner that may contact the edge. It has a 1/8" or so foam on top of some sort of flexible base material - mine was toast, the foam was broken down and a stinky mess. I removed all and used a thin, indoor/outdoor carpet that I got from Home Depot. The carpet is flexible enough and thick enough to make a great replacement, and it's inexpensive too! This carpet can be cut with a razor knife and/or scissors, yet is tough. I removed the old off one side of the car and replaced, while leaving the other side up for reference. I figured if I was going to replace the 42 year old headliner, I was going to do it once and why not spend the time to do it right, padding and all. The padding on the front edge of the headliner area was in better shape so I kept that material.

If you take your time, you can have great success and what a difference it makes to the interior - well worth the time and effort. At $15 for the material, and the cost of contact cement etc., padding etc. I think I spent $40 total, plus my own time.

Pictures to come shortly.

[Coastal220]

Very cool. Thanks for this nice write up. I look forward to the pictures. I'd love to see close-ups of the trim and seal. Nice work!

[Topher39]

Here are the photos - hope you like.

Chris

[Topher39]

One more photo

[Coastal220]

Wow, nice! The headliner looks great as does the seal and trim. Very cozy interior. I'm impressed all the way around.

Cheers

[socalbenz]

That looks really great, Awesome job!

[shadetree77]

YES, really nice. i might have to hit up JOANN's tomorrow

[Topher39]

This is also a good source for vinyl and auto trim in general, they even have the stock style headliner vinyl with the little holes, but any vinyl will work really, softer, and stretchy the better:

Your Auto Trim Store

[Mike D]

Hmmm, sounds as though we need to work out some kind of "labor trade" deal.

[kavadarci1]

hi,
i have w114 coupe with power sunroof.
i have a rattle in the back end of the roof just in front of the rear interior light.
my question is how can i get to this area and check what is causing the rattle without damaging the headliner.

thank you.