Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Vintage Mercedes Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-23-2013, 01:45 PM
WANT '71 280SEL's Avatar
I'll Go Upside Your Head!
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 3,378
loud noise and vibration when braking in reverse w109

When backing up, there is a loud vibration with accompanying "vibration sound" upon braking. It only does this in reverse, mind you. It's definitely coming from the LR. It's very noticeable to all passengers, maybe even outside the car. It almost feels like the brake caliper has one bolt missing and it's slowing pivoting with the wheel. I checked this and it's not the case. There's no clear movement in the wheel with the car off the ground.

If I remember correctly, isn't there some anti-dive design specific to the w109 rear-end? There seems to be a sort of collar at the end of the axles that looks like it pivots on the axles. I can't tell very clearly, but is there a bushing in there that when bad could cause this noise?

Any advice or insight on this? I'm dedicating a full week to do a BUNCH of work to the car and would like to address as much as possible.

Thanks!

David

__________________
_____________________________________________

2000 Honda Accord V6 137k miles

1972 300SEL 4.5 98k miles

_____________________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-23-2013, 08:58 PM
Pooka
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 664
You might check the M-100.cc site, but this sounds like a rear wheel bearing.

There are grease zerts back there for these bearings since they are a rather old type of bearing. The loud noise in reverse is a classic example of the sound you hear when when these bearing have worn out.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-23-2013, 09:48 PM
JMela's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 990
Check this thread, this might be it:

M-100 Message Board - Strange (new) 6.3 sounds
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-24-2013, 12:08 AM
WANT '71 280SEL's Avatar
I'll Go Upside Your Head!
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 3,378
JMela, thank you. That's definitely my issue. Unfortunately it looks like it's almost impossible to eliminate. The thread mentions having shims custom made but I think that's getting over my head, especially when it comes to installing the shims.

Thanks,

David
__________________
_____________________________________________

2000 Honda Accord V6 137k miles

1972 300SEL 4.5 98k miles

_____________________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-24-2013, 06:10 AM
JMela's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by WANT '71 280SEL View Post
JMela, thank you. That's definitely my issue. Unfortunately it looks like it's almost impossible to eliminate. The thread mentions having shims custom made but I think that's getting over my head, especially when it comes to installing the shims.

Thanks,

David
Might be worth a phone call/ email to these guys, different thread said they had developed a kit for 6.3's w these symptoms:

Home - Star Motors NY - Star Motors NY
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-24-2013, 12:07 PM
WANT '71 280SEL's Avatar
I'll Go Upside Your Head!
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 3,378
I checked their website but didn't see anything mentioned about it. I'll give them a call Monday and see what they have to offer.

Thanks,

David
__________________
_____________________________________________

2000 Honda Accord V6 137k miles

1972 300SEL 4.5 98k miles

_____________________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-24-2013, 01:32 PM
cth350's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 3,840
crawl down in there and look for the grease fittings and give them a good shot of grease and the situation should get better.

The repair kit for each side is two plastic bearing shields that look like a half-pipe along with rubber seals. All the air suspension W109 cars need them eventually. Severe wear will require shimming the plastic shells to account for an out-of-round condition.

-CTH
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-24-2013, 01:48 PM
WANT '71 280SEL's Avatar
I'll Go Upside Your Head!
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 3,378
Charlie (or is it Charles?),

Have you done this specific repair before? I did some reading on m100 and it seems the shims might not be the best repair for it as it makes the rear ride rather hard. Then again, it may only be the case when shimmed too much. If you have done this before, how involved is it? I assume the axle shafts have to come out so the whole rear end should come out of the car?

Thanks,

David

P.S. I'm surprised there isn't more on the forum about this as it seems rather common to W109's. There are a few posts on M100.org but I didn't really see anything here. Oh well, I guess there aren't really many 109 owners on this forum.
__________________
_____________________________________________

2000 Honda Accord V6 137k miles

1972 300SEL 4.5 98k miles

_____________________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-25-2013, 11:29 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 121
Brake bearing on the rear axle

When I rebuilt the rear axle on my W109, the nylon bushings on the brake bearings where worn and the axle tube had some slight pitting. I cleaned up the axle tubes with some very fine emory cloth and installed new nylon bushings. That was over a year ago and I not had any noise or chatter when braking in reverse. After 40+ years most W109 cars will need to have these bearings replaced due to wear and lack of proper greasing. There are grease nipples on each bearing that are very easy to miss. This job can be done without having to remove the entire rear axle from the car.

If you do decide to replace the nylon bushings yourself you'll need 2 of these repair kits from mercedes 1094200078. This kit includes new nylon bearing shells, two rubber seal rings and two felt seal rings

You'll have to remove the brake caliper, rotor and backing plate to get access to the bearings. There are 4 bolts holding the bearings together and at least one more large bolt holding the bearing to the brake support arm. One word of caution. The rubber seal rings that seal the bearings will probably have to be replaced. To be able to fit the new rubber rings over the axle housing, you have to pull the axles out. The upside to pulling the axles out is that you can clean and repack the rear wheel bearings and replace the inner and outer wheel bearing seals. There is a repair kit available from benz that has both seals, gaskets, and bearing lock ring 1113500068. Also the big blue mercedes shop manual for W108, W109, W111, and W113 cars has all of the detailed information about replacing the bearing shells and R&R of the rear axles.

From my experience I wouldn't say this job is impossible, but time consuming and very rewarding when fixed properly.

John

Last edited by 68_280SE; 08-25-2013 at 11:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-04-2013, 11:26 AM
WANT '71 280SEL's Avatar
I'll Go Upside Your Head!
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 3,378
Hi John,

Thanks for your in-depth write up. It sounds like this repair is probably beyond what I'd want to do myself, but I'm curious: do you have to open the rear differential to pull out the axle shafts as with most American rear ends?

Thanks,

David
__________________
_____________________________________________

2000 Honda Accord V6 137k miles

1972 300SEL 4.5 98k miles

_____________________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-04-2013, 12:16 PM
WANT '71 280SEL's Avatar
I'll Go Upside Your Head!
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 3,378
Also, I spoke to Star Motors about their kit. It's $290 and supposedly includes everything you'd need. What makes their kit special is that they special machine the bearing to oversize 1 and oversize 2 depending on how bad your car is. He said you'll need to measure your axle end with everything apart to determine which kit you'll need. Cars from rusty parts probably need the second oversize while others can use the first oversize. I guess the Mercedes kit only does the standard size, thus why Star may be the right way for some people.

I'm not sure which way I'll go. Because the MB kit is around $40 with my discount I may start with it and order the kit from Star if the MB one is too loose. With the bearings installed, supposedly you should be able to twist the carrier by hand. If not, you went too big. If it's sloppy, which is sounds like a lot of them are with the standard MB bushings, you'll want to go the Star route.

Hopefully this helps someone with this same issue (i.e. any w109 owner).

Thanks,

David
__________________
_____________________________________________

2000 Honda Accord V6 137k miles

1972 300SEL 4.5 98k miles

_____________________________________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-06-2013, 12:33 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 121
Axle shaft removal

David,

You do not have to open up the differential housing to remove the axle shafts. The axle shafts are held in place by a plate that is bolted to the axle housing with 6 nuts and washers.

Here is a link from the Pagoda website with some pictures showing axle shaft removal. Rear Wheel Bearing Tour

Also if you do decide to pull the axle shafts yourself, there is a procedure you have to go through to engauge the snap ring on the right axle shaft with the slip joint when you reinstall the right axle shaft. The forum on the M-100 board has tons of information on this procedure and its in the blue factory shop manual. I'm not exactly sure when the factory changed the right axle shaft to include the snap ring, but the rear axle in my 1970 300SEL 2.8 didn't have the snap ring. My guess is that it was only on the later cars.

John

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page