1971 Mercedes W114 250C Stroke 8 .........

[KarlC]

Originally Posted by ScooterABC

I'm not clear on what "lowered seats" means. As an option on a car, it would mean that there is a pull handle to the outer side of the seat bottom that when you pull up, you can raise/lower the height of the seat.

Do you mean something else?

I'm 6' 4" and my 71 250 C did not have "lowered seats" and the car had plenty of headroom. However your car has a sunroof and I wonder if cars with sunroofs also have lowered front seats as the sunroof probably eats up between 1 and 2 inches of headroom...

The front seats are different than those of a sedan because they tilt forward to allow access to rear seat. And they have a vacuum lock (that seldom works) to prevent the seat back from folding forward while the vehicle is running with doors closed.

The options I listed are right off of the Window Sticker, right now I cant say what "lowered seats" means, as soon as I get the car back I will look at this closer.

thx

[KarlC]

A few updates.... Yesterday the PDR guys spent most of the day working all over the car, lots of small stuff that would not show well in photos but this large one looks much better ...








PDR guys hard at it ...








Some interior panels where removed to gain better access for the PDR work, then they where repaired where coming lose









Tops rails are also starting to come lose, they will be removed and then reinstalled with 3/16" 120* countersunk rivets

[ScooterABC]

I'm glad to see that you still have your Kangol belts... lots of people scrap them. Personally I like them and find the alternative retrofit retracting belts to be butt ugly.

[ScooterABC]

Originally Posted by KarlC

The options I listed are right off of the Window Sticker, right now I cant say what "lowered seats" means, as soon as I get the car back I will look at this closer.

thx

Does the window sticker list the "option code", or do you have the datacard from MB for the car? I'm trying to find a "lowered seat" option for a 114023 (250C) and not finding it. If you know the option code I can probably find it and post a schematic... I'm curious more than anything else...

[Idle]

It has been mentioned here that the front seats have a lock in them that prevents them from being tilted forward when the engine is running and the doors are shut. It is tied into the same vac system that operates the door locks.

This is good to know because I have talked to owners who were going nuts trying to troubleshoot their vac door lock system and did not know about these vac locks in the seat backs. They are the same type as are in the door and very easy to service, but you cannot service them if you do not know they are there.

And the only service I have ever found they need is to replace the rubber bellows ever twenty years or so. Same for the doors. That and a little lube on the sliding parts when the bellows are replaced.

[ScooterABC]

Originally Posted by Idle

It has been mentioned here that the front seats have a lock in them that prevents them from being tilted forward when the engine is running and the doors are shut. It is tied into the same vac system that operates the door locks.

Yes, that is at least part correct. Vacuum locks were optional, the seat locks were standard. I would _think_ that there would be a check valve such that if there is a vacuum leak in the seat system it doesn't cause the door locks to not work, but I don't know that for sure. The best way is to cap the vacuum to the seat system (which goes through the door-open switch, rear seat passenger escape switch, and the seat bottom bellows itself) and see if you can get your vacuum locks to work. I had a tubing diagram for a W123 and I suspect the same exists for W114. It is really quite easy with a MityVac and diagram... at least on a W123 you can do all of the diagnosis from under the front floor mats to actuate various items and see which lines do and don't hold vacuum. If a line going backwards doesn't hold vacuum, it has a leak further down the line, either at a junction or at an actuator. This often means you don't actually have to take the door panels off to find the vacuum leaks since you can actuate the door locks for the doors independently from under the carpet at tubing junctions. The junctions themselves are just as likely or more likely to be the point of failure. And the "close" vacuum lines (yellow with red stripe as I recall on W123) is completely independent of the "open" vacuum line circuit. In other words, there is nothing unusual about the vacuum locks working fine to lock the car but not fine to unlock the car.

Originally Posted by Idle

This is good to know because I have talked to owners who were going nuts trying to troubleshoot their vac door lock system and did not know about these vac locks in the seat backs. They are the same type as are in the door and very easy to service, but you cannot service them if you do not know they are there..

Mercedes _might_ have been nice enough to color-code the lines related to the seat differently. In the case of the seat, it is only one circuit to LOCK the seats. The default is to unlock the seats. In other words, if there is a vacuum leak at the actuator, rear seat switch, door light switch, or any junction the seat will be unlocked. In contrast, the door locks operate in a vacuum-actuated locking and vacuum-actuated unlocking mode. (I think). And I _think_ that the gas cap is default unlocked and only locked with vacuum present, but I might be either wrong about that or have it backwards.

Originally Posted by Idle

And the only service I have ever found they need is to replace the rubber bellows ever twenty years or so. Same for the doors. That and a little lube on the sliding parts when the bellows are replaced.

Debugging the vacuum on my 85 300TD involved the replacement of the door switch itself, a few rubber Y junctions, one door actuator and the rear hatch actuator. Anything you don't want to replace can be capped off (cap the vacuum line, not the actuator) so as to prevent a leak that affects other components.

[ScooterABC]

Step one is obtaining a map of the vacuum lines. It is NOT testing each actuator at the actuator. Cap things until you have an air-tight system and then start adding in components until you get a failure if necessary.

[Idle]

The post above is so handy to have that it should be given a sticky in the tech section. It is possible to figure out the vac system on your own, but it is also possible to figure out how to swim the English Channel on your own. A guide such as the one above will save a lot of people a lot of time in the future and I am likely to be one of them.

While wandering around looking for the lower seat option code I ran across the site in OZ that the link will take you to. No lowered seat as such, but there is a 'raised seat' option.

The liked site is about data cards, and Mercedes option codes from the early 70's are listed a bit down in the site. This might be worth printing off if you own one of these cars.

Australia's leading Mercedes-Benz website

[ScooterABC]

Here is a slightly helpful diagram of a W123 Coupe seat lock circuit. I would think that a 114 coupe would be basically the same. The problem is that this diagram isn't very friendly. Nothing is color-coded and it doesn't say where the actual lines run. But this is the _type_ of information you need.

If I have a W114 body / shop manual at home, which I think I do, I'll look in it and see if it has a vacuum diagram.... If I forget, but me about this again...

Scott

[ScooterABC]

Here is a more useful diagram, unfortunately for a W123 sedan. But you get the idea... If you have this type of diagram fixing the problems will be much easier...

I found these very quickly courtesy of google.

[Xlimodriver]

Nice W114. I was tempted to buy this white one a few years ago for $900.
That was until I opened the door and saw weeds growing through the floor boards.

[KarlC]

Originally Posted by ScooterABC

Does the window sticker list the "option code", or do you have the datacard from MB for the car? I'm trying to find a "lowered seat" option for a 114023 (250C) and not finding it. If you know the option code I can probably find it and post a schematic... I'm curious more than anything else...

Hopefully you can see this, its a photo of the window sticker that list of all of the codes on options on this car.

Looks like Code 275 Lowered Front seats

[KarlC]

Originally Posted by ScooterABC

Yes, that is at least part correct. Vacuum locks were optional, the seat locks were standard. I would _think_ that there would be a check valve such that if there is a vacuum leak in the seat system it doesn't cause the door locks to not work, but I don't know that for sure. The best way is to cap the vacuum to the seat system (which goes through the door-open switch, rear seat passenger escape switch, and the seat bottom bellows itself) and see if you can get your vacuum locks to work. I had a tubing diagram for a W123 and I suspect the same exists for W114. It is really quite easy with a MityVac and diagram... at least on a W123 you can do all of the diagnosis from under the front floor mats to actuate various items and see which lines do and don't hold vacuum. If a line going backwards doesn't hold vacuum, it has a leak further down the line, either at a junction or at an actuator. This often means you don't actually have to take the door panels off to find the vacuum leaks since you can actuate the door locks for the doors independently from under the carpet at tubing junctions. The junctions themselves are just as likely or more likely to be the point of failure. And the "close" vacuum lines (yellow with red stripe as I recall on W123) is completely independent of the "open" vacuum line circuit. In other words, there is nothing unusual about the vacuum locks working fine to lock the car but not fine to unlock the car.


Mercedes _might_ have been nice enough to color-code the lines related to the seat differently. In the case of the seat, it is only one circuit to LOCK the seats. The default is to unlock the seats. In other words, if there is a vacuum leak at the actuator, rear seat switch, door light switch, or any junction the seat will be unlocked. In contrast, the door locks operate in a vacuum-actuated locking and vacuum-actuated unlocking mode. (I think). And I _think_ that the gas cap is default unlocked and only locked with vacuum present, but I might be either wrong about that or have it backwards.


Debugging the vacuum on my 85 300TD involved the replacement of the door switch itself, a few rubber Y junctions, one door actuator and the rear hatch actuator. Anything you don't want to replace can be capped off (cap the vacuum line, not the actuator) so as to prevent a leak that affects other components.

Great info thx

[KarlC]

Originally Posted by ScooterABC

Here is a slightly helpful diagram of a W123 Coupe seat lock circuit. I would think that a 114 coupe would be basically the same. The problem is that this diagram isn't very friendly. Nothing is color-coded and it doesn't say where the actual lines run. But this is the _type_ of information you need.

If I have a W114 body / shop manual at home, which I think I do, I'll look in it and see if it has a vacuum diagram.... If I forget, but me about this again...

Scott

Originally Posted by ScooterABC

Here is a more useful diagram, unfortunately for a W123 sedan. But you get the idea... If you have this type of diagram fixing the problems will be much easier...

I found these very quickly courtesy of google.

Those are both great thx

.

[KarlC]

Not sure what these are or what they tell, its part of all of the paper work I got with the car...