1963 W111 Fintail Front Caliper - ATE or Bendex?

[ScooterABC]

I need to replace at least one of the front calipers on my recently acquired 220 Sb. I can't find markings on it that identify it as either Teves (ATE) or Bendex. Photos attached.

Question:
1. Can I replace both front calipers with ATE rebuilt if the car originally had Bendex, or will some of the hoses or lines not be correct?

2. Which is shown in the photos - Bendex or ATE?

thanks
Scott

[ScooterABC]

OK, from looking at the picture and surfing the web I've come to the conclusion that it is a GIRLING caliper, which isn't even listed in EPC as a choice. What is more troubling is that the hose/tube arrangement on this Girling caliper is totally bizarre. I wonder what happens if I order ATE....

[686point3]

I believe there were three choices of calipers.
I think they all fit onto the spindle.

Could you complete your profile.
I like to know where people are on the forum...
I just recently checked on the brakes of a 1965 220SEb that my brother bought and the two front calipers were different.
It must have worked like that at one point.....
but I am sure it was not factory....

Thanks
Alex

[Carpenterman]

My fintail had an ATE and a Bendix on the front. I replaced both with rebuilt ATEs.

I am sure the ATEs will work on your car. They are interchangeable.

[Idle]

Originally Posted by ScooterABC

OK, from looking at the picture and surfing the web I've come to the conclusion that it is a GIRLING caliper, which isn't even listed in EPC as a choice. What is more troubling is that the hose/tube arrangement on this Girling caliper is totally bizarre. I wonder what happens if I order ATE....

According to the manuals I have this model came with Girling front discs and Dunlop rear drums. The Girling looks like a rather substantial caliper with what appears to be three pistons. The problem with switching to another brand is that you might not get the same stopping force.

There are shops that can rebuild calipers. The real question is can you still find the pads?

[ScooterABC]

My concern is that when I look at both the ATE and Bendex calipers on-line, the inlet for the pressurized brake fluid seems to be on the "front" meaning pointing towards the front of the car. On the Girling caliper it is on the TOP. Meaning that there is a tube going from the rear back of the backing plate to the top front of the caliper that is unique to a Girling caliper. This is a Mercedes part, but unless I have that very specific rigid tube I don't see how I can make this work by using ATE. See attached pictures.

[ScooterABC]

Originally Posted by Idle

According to the manuals I have this model came with Girling front discs and Dunlop rear drums. The Girling looks like a rather substantial caliper with what appears to be three pistons. The problem with switching to another brand is that you might not get the same stopping force.

There are shops that can rebuild calipers. The real question is can you still find the pads?

You are correct that it is a 3 piston caliper - one big one and two little ones. My understanding is that the pads are not unique to a caliper but this could be wrong. One of the calipers is pretty dreadful as shown in the picture. The other is OK.

[Idle]

I could not find anything on this on the Pelican sales site, but this place might be worth looking into. At least it can give you some part numbers you might be able to use.

1963 MERCEDES BENZ 220B Front Disc Brakes; Girling Caliper Brakes: Disc Brake Rotors, Pads, Drums, Lines, Brake Masters

[ScooterABC]

So given that the rigid tubing is different for my Girling calipers as opposed to the Bendex and ATE, can I use the tubing from a W114 or W108 and ATE caliper and have what I need? I don't think I can swap to ATE and use the existing metal tubing that goes into the top of my existing Girling caliper....

[Marrs]

I just replaced my front pads and my calipers were Girling as well. My shop said the pads are actually smaller and cannot be switched out with the ATE or otherwise if I wished to keep them, and I did retain them. They said the pads are very hard to find today but with my shop being in business since 1969 they found one last set in the back room. I was told I could switch to the ATE calipers simply to make finding pads easier in the future but we did not get into what is involved in the process since I chose not to go that route. Long story short, as I was told if you want to keep those calipers you will need the Girling specific pads.

[ScooterABC]

OK well I learned a lot today by spending $100 at the junkyard (half price day). What I learned is that late 108 calipers will not fit because they take finned rotors and a different backing plate and it just won't work. I looked at EPC and found that ATE calipers from an earlier 108 or any 114 (basically anything without vented rotors) should fit. The problem is that the metal tubing between hose and caliper doesn't exist on a 114 and it's a different shape between 108 and 111, but can probably be made to work.

So I'll go to another junkyard and get ATE calipers off of a 114 or early 108...

[Jari]

I replaced the Girlings on my 63 220S with rebuilt ATE calipers. They were around $60 each with core charge included. These calipers were listed to fit 63-67. The only modification I had to do was to shorten the hard line that goes from the hose to the caliper and flare the end.

[Tomguy]

Scott,
AFAIK the vented rotors are the same diameter as the non-vented, just thicker. So you should probably upgrade the rotors to the newer vented style since you're upgrading calipers. Use the full 108 front setup and it should stop very well with much less fade, especially in stop and go traffic.

[ScooterABC]

Originally Posted by Tomguy

Scott,
AFAIK the vented rotors are the same diameter as the non-vented, just thicker. So you should probably upgrade the rotors to the newer vented style since you're upgrading calipers. Use the full 108 front setup and it should stop very well with much less fade, especially in stop and go traffic.

Unfortunately no. The vented rotor is about 1" larger in diameter. Which means you need the W108 (with vented rotor) backing plate, which I have, but it isn't compatible with the early 111 mounting. Early 108 / all 114/115 / all disk 111 _appear_ to use the same ATE caliper and rotor. Late 108 use a larger caliper and rotor.

I would like to upgrade to the larger brakes but it appears to not be in the cards...

[Tomguy]

Do the bolt patterns for the larger 108 calipers match the ones for the 111? If so, just grab the hub assemblies. If not, grab the whole spindle & hub. To me, it's worth having the extra stopping power.