W111
 

Hello guys, I have recently aquired a very nice 1963 220Sb it is been brought out of storage an it had the basic tune ups and such. But i've driven it about 60 miles since i got it from the previous owner. He drove only 10 miles before he sold it to me (he found the car in storage and sold it to me). Anyways the carbs were adjusted and seem alright but my car has a few problems i don't know how to fix. First off the car is very slow. Like VERY slow, it won't go past 45-50 the engine starts hesitating after 40 overall first 3 gears are very short for some reason or is this normal? I am usually at 4 gear by 40 mph. Also the car gets very hot when I bring it home after I drive a few blocks. The head and radiator are like fire you cant lay your finger on them for even a second. Will electronic ingnition fix these problems? Everyone says this car was pretty fast back then. But my top speed if i'm lucky is 50, not 103 like it supposed to be. But i would be happy if the car would go up to 80 and not smoke as much. Also another big problem is every time i slow down to a red light the car turns off as i slow down, then it turns right on when i turn the car on again. Please help.

Very slow to me indicates fuel starvation. I have no problem getting to 80 mph in my 63 220Sb. Yes, the gearing is low. It would be really nice to have a 5th gear. What is the temp gauge reading on the car?

If you haven't rebuilt the carbs you probably need to. If you stall at idle sometimes then you probably have a vacuum leak and improper idle set to compensate. For me the vacuum leak areas were the carbs themselves and the brake booster hose. If you stall when applying the brakes I would bypass (plug) the vacuum to the booster and see what happens (of course you won't have power brakes during this time so be aware).

You also need to check timing.

Many cars have the wrong wires and plugs installed. You do NOT want resister plugs and you DO want copper core wires with 1k resistance. I think the correct plug is Bosch W7DC but not available without resister so go for the NGK equivalent. If there is an R in the spark plug number it is wrong.

Please elaborate on what specifically was done for basic tune up....

Welcome to the Forum!

Do you have an RPM gauge? It can be helpful to know if the motor is revving out normally, and for checking the timing. When you are in neutral and out of gear, does the RPM stop climbing at 2,000? 3,000?

These cars use oil normally when they are healthy and functioning correctly. It is critical to make sure you have an oil level within min/max. A modern Honda can go 3,000 miles without having to add oil. I check the oil every time I put gas in the car. You will get a sense of how much oil your engine consumes over time. Oil is cheap compared to replacing the engine.

If you have smoke coming from you exhaust pipe, that is not normal. You could have a leaking head gasket allowing water to seap into oil. It could be worn valve guides or some other valve issues. It could be piston rings. The color and density of the smoke can often indicate the likely culprit. It is hard to say what would cause smoke, but it is an indication that something will eventually break if not addressed.

I love my W111. I am happy that you are keeping another one on the road. Do you have some photos of your car? We are thrilled by pictures!

Best regards,

Jeffrey

I was thinking more about this. "hesitation" I associate with fuel starvation -- not enough gas getting pumped into the carbs. But going slow I associate with incorrectly adjusted linkage. I went through this on my car and fixed it so it is correct following the instructions in the Big Blue Book (which you might want to buy when you can find one for a good deal). Anyway, take the air cleaner off the carbs and have someone else push the gas pedal all the way down. Do you see BOTH BARRELS of both carbs opening fully? You should. If you don't, then that's your "slow" problem. There are very specific instructions for adjusting the linkage and chances are that someone did it wrong. The instructions are slightly different depending on if you have progressive or not progressive linkage, your car could have either but it is probably progressive.

He needs to identify if it is water vapor (head gasket), unburnt fuel (tuning) or oil (leaks, wear). And like you say, check for oil consumption.

Well thanks for the info guys. I just checked my car and two barrels are not even moving! One on each carb the two on the right. Also my oil seems fine since i changed it. Also to clarify the previous owner took the car to a mercedes mechanic and rebuilt the carbs, brakes, cleaned gas tank and changed the fluids. When I got the car, i changed the oil, changed plugs, new caps rotor and points adjusted to .19 if i remember the guy who sort of adjusted my carbs and points wasn't really knowledgeable so.. Well what do i do now that i know two barrels aren't working? (I have almost no mechanical skills lol)

Poor running won't kill the engine - overheating may well do it in. Verify operating temperatures with an IR gun to locate source of problem and fix same before anything else.

So one mystery is solved. That's why your car is slow. Been there, done that. "The two on the right" -- from what perspective? Front of car, back of car, engine side, fender side? I'm assuming you have two 2-barrel solex carbs. Is that correct? It is possible you have Zenith or Weber carbs also, but less likely.

Is the mechanic who did this local or not local?

What plugs did you use? Be specific. Most people put in the wrong plugs.

When you speak of the guy who sort of adjusted your carbs - are you talking about the Mercedes mechanic or someone new?

Now that you know that two barrels aren't working you do exactly what the Mercedes manual says about setting and adjusting the linkage. You have made no mention of the choke or the choke cable, which concerns me a bit. Do you have a choke knob, do you use it, and does it do something? This is also relevant in getting the car to run right.

Agreed, but the imprecise description leaves me wondering what "hot" means to the OP. What does the temp gauge read and IS IT WORKING? If the temp gauge is not working then I agree, DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR with it too hot. You absolutely must have a working temp gauge in the car, even if you BS one under the hood. (I currently have a ponton temp gauge next to the battery under my hood because I haven't gotten around to replacing the one in the cluster).

Hey guys sorry for the inconvenience. Im going to answer in order. 1st the temp guage on the dash reads aprox 180 when car is warmed up but it stays at 180 the whole time driving..
2nd the Mercedes mechanic who did the major stuff wasnt local and i never met him, the previous owner told me what he did and i take his word since the calipers look fantastic but they don't feel like power brakes. The local mechanic just did the points. 3rd my plugs were very cheap autolite 606 copper core.
Also the carb is Solex i meant right from the point of view standing in front of the hood.
Also i have no access to a manual of any sort but i did just find a Mercedes shop that can work on my car. Any idea how much they would charge since im broke lol. The choke works fine and i have to use it to turn on the car unless i just drove it. If i turn it off the car will also turn off unless i rev it alot. Actually just checked the oil and its half passed the first mark but color looks fine.. When i changed the oil it was a bit past the 2nd line and that was about a month ago.

Also the bottom of the block looks wet and whenever I turn the car on smoke that is whiteish comes out. Alot of smoke but not insane. Does anyone have any pictures of which part of the carb the brake goes to or which part i should plug because the carb looks very complicated and there are several open holes just dont know which is causing the leak. The mercedes mechani who i never met did not adjust the carbs but did rebuild them according to the new owner but the local mechanic did synchronize them by ear . But he obviously didnt know what he was doing since he didn't even open the two other barrels. Thanks in advance

The brake booster is located next to your radiator. You will see a vacuum line from your intake manifold to the booster.

There is a thread about rebuilding the brake booster here--> http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/vintage-mercedes/269486-fintail-brake-booster-3.html

Can you take a picture or your temperature gauge at operating temp? Would love to see the car too!

OK, off hand I would conclude:

1) your car is not overheating assuming the coolant is full. 180 is correct.
2) Autolite 606 I think is a resister plug and shouldn't be used. NGK BP6 or Bosch W7DC are good choices. I am pretty sure you do NOT want resistor spark plugs. If there is an "R" in the number it is a resistor plug.
3) Solex carbs - OK, the right barrels look from the hood towards the car are the barrels closest to the engine. Those are the secondaries. They open after the primaries. Those are never opening with your linkage the way it is and that is why your car is slow.
4) Choke - can you turn off the choke with the car warm and not have the car stall out? If your car stalls with the choke pushed in when hot then you have either idle set wrong or vacuum leaks or most likely both. You can't set/tune the carbs if you have vacuum leaks. People compensate by setting idle too high.
5) White smoke is I think water vapor - someone else confirm. What does it smell like? If you have water vapor then you might have a blown head gasket.
6) open holes on the carbs? Post pictures.
7) cost to adjust linkage? First you need to find someone who knows how to do it OR have the good MB instructions. I would guess it is an hour of labor.
8) you can synchronize the carbs without having the linkage correct. The linkage that keeps the carbs sync'd is one piece of linkage but it isn't the one that controls how far the accelerator pedal pushes on the linkage. It isn't going far enough.
9) oil on bottom of block means oil leaks somewhere, that is the least of your worries. If you want to know how much, wipe it all clean and see how fast it gets wet. Monitor oil and coolant consumption.

Send me an email address and I'll send you a scan of the PDF of the relevant pages. The scan is VERY poor quality (sorry) too big to attach.