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  #1  
Old 01-27-2016, 12:02 PM
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1964 220SE w111 parts car questions

I currently own a 1964 220b that is certainly a project. I found a 1964 220SE for an excellent deal online that would potentially have tons of the parts I need (rear bumper, seats, carpeting to name a few). I'm particularly attracted to the potential of upgrading my dual carburetors to the fuel injected system, and acquiring the fluid flywheel. However the car has been sitting for around 12 years they say. My question therefore, after this time, is it likely that the fuel injection and fluid flywheel are still usable? If not, which parts are likely need to be replacing? Thanks for the help Guys.

Grant W
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Old 01-27-2016, 08:40 PM
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Welcome Grant! Fluid flywheel?
There isn't an easy answer to your question. It really depends on the engine, how it was stored, where it was stored, and why someone stopped driving the car to begin with. If the engine will turn and if you don't know it to be bad, there is a decent chance you can bring it to life. I would definitely find that out in the donor car rather than transplant it (and the fuel pump and other injection-related parts) into the body of your 220b.

Are both cars manual transmission? Or automatic transmission? Or one of each...?

You might go to youtube and watch Kent Bergma's ************** video series on the resurrection of the beast -- it's a 30 episode story about him resurrecting a W109 6.3 V8 car. Everything he says about the fuel system is relevant to the engine/fuel system of the 220Seb (and nothing much else is). So watch those chapters and get an idea of what you are dealing with.

If you are switching from manual to automatic transmission (or the other way around) be mindful that you may have flywheel issues - The M180 crankshaft and flywheel were balanced as a unit rather than independently. Kind of a pain.
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:48 PM
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The correct term is fluid coupling. This will help when you are searching for info online.

And there are two types, and early and late. The early ones have three bolts and the later ones have six. There was a part number change or two along the way as well but I don't think there was any difference is the parts except for the early and late.

And I don't know about the fuel system but I have seen fluid couplers that had been in storage for 30 years that worked without a problem.

And to swap to FI you would need to swap the engine since it will have a different head, sensors and camshaft than the carbed engines. It is just easier to install the entire engine. And don't forget to install the SE fuel pump because the FI system needs pressure on it to work correctly. Pressure from the rear to the front, that is. And it is this pressure that means you need to have a fuel pressure regulator in the system.

There is also a cold start valve and FI intake manifold that you will need to swap over.

But all in all this is not a big deal. It is an engine swap and the installing of an electric fuel pump.
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Old 02-03-2016, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idle View Post
The correct term is fluid coupling. This will help when you are searching for info online.

And there are two types, and early and late. The early ones have three bolts and the later ones have six. There was a part number change or two along the way as well but I don't think there was any difference is the parts except for the early and late.

And I don't know about the fuel system but I have seen fluid couplers that had been in storage for 30 years that worked without a problem.

And to swap to FI you would need to swap the engine since it will have a different head, sensors and camshaft than the carbed engines. It is just easier to install the entire engine. And don't forget to install the SE fuel pump because the FI system needs pressure on it to work correctly. Pressure from the rear to the front, that is. And it is this pressure that means you need to have a fuel pressure regulator in the system.

There is also a cold start valve and FI intake manifold that you will need to swap over.

But all in all this is not a big deal. It is an engine swap and the installing of an electric fuel pump.
The engine change may not be too difficult but what about all of the extra wiring required to run everything that's different? May not be impossible; may not be fun either.
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Old 02-04-2016, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Benz View Post
The engine change may not be too difficult but what about all of the extra wiring required to run everything that's different? May not be impossible; may not be fun either.
That's correct. There are a number of relays and sensors that are necessary for the correct operation and some of these are not cheap.

Don't miss the relay array in the upper right hand corner at the rear of the engine bay. This would be on the passenger side if a US car. They may not look like much but the system will not operate without them.
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  #6  
Old 02-15-2016, 08:55 AM
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So you would like to ditch the 220 carbed engine and transmission in favor of the 220se drive line. First step would be to make the parts car run. Then extract the engine+transmission, then the wire harness portion that connected to the FI system.

The exhaust down pipes are different for the two engines, possibly the whole system (ie dual vs single exhaust). As long as both are automatic, the 220b tip should be at the right spot to hook up to the trans.

-CTH
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