Pertronix electronic ignition distributor kit 75 SEL

[aluminum]

Who Makes / Sells a " electronic ignition distributor kit 1975 Mercedes 450 SEL.
I am wanting to convert this 1975 Mercedes SEL to a after market electronic ignition distributor kit but can't find one for sale anywhere ?

The " trigger points " are junk so to convert the stock system seems the best way to go But Where ? can I get a Conversion system / Kit

If anyone knows
Thanks in advance

[Graham]

Originally Posted by aluminum

Who Makes / Sells a " electronic ignition distributor kit 1975 Mercedes 450 SEL.
I am wanting to convert this 1975 Mercedes SEL to a after market electronic ignition distributor kit but can't find one for sale anywhere ?

The " trigger points " are junk so to convert the stock system seems the best way to go But Where ? can I get a Conversion system / Kit

If anyone knows
Thanks in advance

Not sure I understand. 1975 was year Mercedes switched from D-Jet to K-Jet. You mention trigger points. Those are only on the D-Jet.

If you have a Djet, short of changing to a completely new fuel injection system such as Megasquirt, you are stuck with trigger points. If you have a k-jet, you don't have trigger points anyway.

Pertronix only eliminates the ignition points. Not trigger points.

[aluminum]

Thanks for reply 1975 450 SEL
1975 has Trigger points !
( I also have a 1975 SEL and it also has trigger points / that one works )

?? so the Car is now worthless ? as you can't get Trigger points hummm
I set them once and it ran great for a few months but now is off again so I guess I set than badly ...
Was hoping to do away with this stupid system ? must be a way it seems
as far as I know the Car is a D jet not a K jet
the Injectors are Electric !
I know your expert on these cars BUT the 1975 SEL ( 450 ) is a D Jet with Trigger Points . Darn I well now have to buy the costly tool from the guy in Germany just to try to set the stupid Trigger points points . I now they are made to last 100,000 miles but you can't buy them at least for a reasonable price so a work around is needed .

[Graham]

You need to calm down if you are looking for help. I now recall you asking same question on BW a few years back. http://www.benzworld.org/forums/vintage-mercedes-benz/2156417-distributor-trigger-points-1975-mercedes-450-a.html

I never said that you did not have a Djet. Just that the change from Djet to Kjet took place during 1975 so needed you to confirm just what you had.

As mentioned, Pertronix won't help with trigger point issues. It can help with ignition, but is trickier to install on 75 than on pre-75 cars. There are other ignition upgrades, like Crane, that will do same . You asked about this before and I replied.

You can buy trigger points as well as a Bosch kit for upgrading old ones. Neither are cheap.

That "expensive" tool for adjusting trigger points costs about $20.00 including shipping! I bought one from Norbert.

The Djet system is not stupid. It works amazingly well despite being 45+ years old. But if you want to get rid of it, you can install a Megasquirt system. But not if $20 is expensive

In future, hopefully someone else will try and help.

[aluminum]

anybody install a " Megasquirt system " and know just how much it costs ?
I have read they work very well and get much better Fuel millage
Cost ?
Looks like the only way I see so far is to replace the distributor but no telling how long before it might fail . And to find one is hard .
I emailed Norbert and as I remember he wants something like $50 for the tool ? not sure

[Mike D]

If you think $50 is too much for the tool then I'd suggest forgetting about MegaSquirt.

You're looking at about $400-$500 for the ECM, O2 sensor and wiring loom (highly recommended), plus you need to come up with a TPS or a MAF sensor. You can sidestep the MAF and TPS by using MAP settings but it requires a bit more hands on tuning.

This still doesn't eliminate the need for a points/Pertronix set-up. The MS would be running in "fuel only" mode even with the Pertronix. It would remove the trigger points from the equation by controlling the injectors electronically.

The MS would give a marginal increase in performance and economy over a properly operating D-jet system.

I am a proponent for the MS systems (I've converted all three of my cars) but I also know they aren't a simple "plug and play" replacement or cure-all for fueling problems.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by Mike D

If you think $50 is too much for the tool then I'd suggest forgetting about MegaSquirt.

Ain't that the truth

Don't know if Norbert increased his price, but already told Aluminum that I paid $20.00. Drawing of tool is free if you want to make one yourself.

My feeling is that if you can't get Djet to work properly, you will also have a lot of trouble getting MS to work More of a hobby than a cure ? But I wish I had an old car that I could try it on!

[Mike D]

Well, if you're really bored, you can pop on down here and piddle with this M110 conversion I've put on hold until I can find the time.

Probably no need for you to bring a jacket, ya might find the temps to be a bit on the warmish side.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by Mike D

Probably no need for you to bring a jacket, ya might find the temps to be a bit on the warmish side.

If we weren't already booked for SC, that might have worked during winter! A couple of winters ago, I did rebuild my DJet harness during winter down there. Sometimes bad harness connections are cause of Djet problems.

[Mike D]

"Winter"? What's that?

I've found that 80% of all D-Jet problems are wiring issues. Bad connections/wires lead to increased resistance which leads to corrosion of contact surfaces which leads to higher voltage requirements which lead to......

I certainly understand frustrations with the old systems and the desire to upgrade to a newer control system. I just don't want the OP to think he's buying a "plug and play" system he's going to install in an afternoon.

[aluminum]

Originally Posted by Mike D

"Winter"? What's that?

I've found that 80% of all D-Jet problems are wiring issues. Bad connections/wires lead to increased resistance which leads to corrosion of contact surfaces which leads to higher voltage requirements which lead to......

I certainly understand frustrations with the old systems and the desire to upgrade to a newer control system. I just don't want the OP to think he's buying a "plug and play" system he's going to install in an afternoon.

Thanks for reply I agree , Originally bought the car with no spark and as a retired Line Mechanic checked everything . Finally ( a shot in the dark) discovered a slight residue of oil film on the inner fender panel drivers side where all the electronics like ballasts , Ignition control box , wiring are located . As such I gave it a light pressure wash and blew it dry.
Cranked the motor over and coil fires to ground . Car started right up with slight tappet noise for first 10 Min's then ran just fine . Discovered a Very slight leak from the power steering Lid seal was the cause of the leak grounding out the Ignition .
Months went by and the Trigger points began giving a loss of spark . cleaned and adjusted them as well as possible . Now this was a very poor adjustment as they are almost impossible to adjust without the Norbert tool and I don't have one . I set mine with a dwell gauge spinning the Dist to see that they open or not and such . All the plug in connections connections to the distributor body where degraded and had to all be re soldered . now no spark again . 5 sets of points 1 on top and 4 below non adjustable only by crude bending . you can't buy them anywhere I can find ? perhaps some private party for a huge price . seems Mercedes knows they are junk and does not sell them Evan as far as i can find .

I have as well a 1975 450 SLC with the same distributor and that one works fine ( for now ) however the 450 SEL is a like new Car and I would like to drive it again if I can get it going somehow but for how long?
So I have this great Car with a none working Ignition system now yard art hummm

[DieselPaul]

You're interchanging terms and confusing most of us.

On D-Jet cars, "trigger points" refers to how the fuel injection system is signaled. Fuel injection trigger points will get oil vapor on them and I use electronics cleaner (alcohol spray) to clean them off.

I've always set the ignition breaker points by feel on old Benzes.

Mercedes does sell points for the M117, I have bought them.

If you're burning through ignition points you need to make sure your ignition resistance is correct. Lots of people bypass the transistorized ignition, then don't change the ballast resistors accordingly, or people put low resistance wires, or resistor spark plugs in them. All that stuff can lead to a car eating points. Changing points on a car that's eating points, without doing any other repairs or research leads to... another 5 sets of burnt points.

[aluminum]

Thanks for reply :
not burning through Points > Everything is completely stock . As far as I can tell the rubbing blocks are worn out so the trigger points don't open right . So you say Mercedes sells trigger points for a M117 ? is that the same as a 116 like mine ?
Happen to know how much they cost by chance ballpark ok ?
any part number ?

Once again the Car ia a 1975 Mercedes 450 SEL D Jet a 116 Car

Humm Looked online and it seems the M117 is the engine type in a 116 Mercedes

Originally Posted by DieselPaul

You're interchanging terms and confusing most of us.

On D-Jet cars, "trigger points" refers to how the fuel injection system is signaled. Fuel injection trigger points will get oil vapor on them and I use electronics cleaner (alcohol spray) to clean them off.

I've always set the ignition breaker points by feel on old Benzes.

Mercedes does sell points for the M117, I have bought them.

If you're burning through ignition points you need to make sure your ignition resistance is correct. Lots of people bypass the transistorized ignition, then don't change the ballast resistors accordingly, or people put low resistance wires, or resistor spark plugs in them. All that stuff can lead to a car eating points. Changing points on a car that's eating points, without doing any other repairs or research leads to... another 5 sets of burnt points.

[TZ_280SEL]

I megasquirted my 4.5 a little over a year ago. I will say my megasquirt is far better to drive than the old d-jet. No knocking the d-jet because I think it was phenomenal for its day, but this is turn the key and get consistent running regardless of the temperature or weather.

I did the entire fuel and ignition. As with most things, megasquirt will only be as good as the person doing it. You can find a lot of people bad mouth it and then you see the rats nest of wires they have twisted together.

I spent $1,243.03 and that was MS3X with a harness, WB O2, injectors, fuel rail, trigger wheel and sensor, coils, new TPS, IAC valve, air and coolant temp sensors, all new connectors and loom.

[Mike D]

Originally Posted by TZ_280SEL

I megasquirted my 4.5 a little over a year ago. I will say my megasquirt is far better to drive than the old d-jet. No knocking the d-jet because I think it was phenomenal for its day, but this is turn the key and get consistent running regardless of the temperature or weather.

I did the entire fuel and ignition. As with most things, megasquirt will only be as good as the person doing it. You can find a lot of people bad mouth it and then you see the rats nest of wires they have twisted together.

I spent $1,243.03 and that was MS3X with a harness, WB O2, injectors, fuel rail, trigger wheel and sensor, coils, new TPS, IAC valve, air and coolant temp sensors, all new connectors and loom.

Pictures or it didn't happen!

Just kidding although I would like to see the pictures. I'm always interested in seeing how others have done their conversions. It's nice to see different ways to solve problems. When you are in the middle of the forest, it's hard to see the trees kind of thing sometimes.