Choosing my first benz (and car!)

[Holoublahee]

Hi! This is my first post on the forum, though I have been lurking and reading lots over the last few months. I'm looking for a little advice!

My goals for this car are twofold: firstly, I want a daily(ish) driver while I am at school and to drive the 6 hours to and from my home in DC to Ohio a couple times a year. And secondly I want a car that I love and on which I can learn to do a lot of the maintenance work.

After months of research and thinking it through, I have decided to go for a W115 240d. I was initially looking at W123s, but I really REALLY like the look of the 115s and they seem to comparable in terms of reliability and price.

I am currently looking at two options to buy: white 75 240d with a sunroof and crank windows for (negotiable) $4,000 and a '74 tobacco brown no sunroof and crank windows for $5,500. I'll write in a few details

The white: 103,000 miles
Pros-- only 30 minutes away
cheaper
garage kept
sunroof
very solid exterior and interior
prefer the color to the other
Cons-- has been sitting for last two years
I am not very clear as to what maintenance has been done
Needs a new battery and break work.

Owner is selling because he is selling the property the car is on and he has 12 other cars. He does not every use it, and it has been sitting since the battery died.

The brown: 115,000miles
Pros--
looks to be in fantastic shape--impeccable interior and very straight and clean exterior
the owner has all maintenance records, manuals
loads of maintenance work has been done:"New items include: Heater & A/C blower motors, timing chain, valve cover gasket, radiator, oil cooler, tie rods, sway bars, all new Michelins, New horsehair seat pads (front & rear), headliner, sun visors, Cocomats, A/C items, windshield seals (front & rear)"
Owner is selling because he found himself a new toy
Cons--
More pricey
I'm not crazy about the color, but the more I look at it the more I like it.
4 hour drive from me, but I'm definitely not against road trips. I just think this would make finding a mechanic/negotiating a bit more difficult.


Both sellers seem honest, but the owner of the brown '74 240d is definitely more knowledgable. Honestly, in writing this out, the answer seems obvious, but I'd still like your opinions!

I will probably drive over to look at the white car and see if its even worth towing to a mechanic to get prepurcahse checked. Are there any things in particular I should look out for? Obviously rust, but I'm not sure how much else I can figure out about it without getting a pro to check it out with me.

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance! There was a lot more to say than I thought.

[Shortsguy1]

These are great cars and very reliable one sorted. 4K seems high for a non-running vehicle. If it truly is only the battery, wouldn't the owner just put a new battery in so that he could sell a running car? Seems like a fair bit of work is probably lurking there.

For both, keep in mind that the odometer only has 5 digits, so you can never know if it is 103,000 or 203,000 (or 115,000 or 215,000). My 220d has sat for many years in the past, and is at about 225K, so it is totally possible that the odometers in the cars you are investigating have turned over twice. It doesn't fundamentally matter if a car is well sorted, but don't put too much value in those low odo numbers unless they can be proved with complete records.

If it were me, 4K is simply too much for a non running w115. So if you like that car, the price either has to come down over $1000 or the owner needs to get it running. If neither of those are going to happen, move on.

$5500 should really get you a perfect or close to perfect 240D. Occasionally I see private sales for up to $7500, but that is very rare. I have seen some beauties sell for under $4K. So only pay that price if it is REALLY nice in person.

Regarding the rust, lift the carpets at the feet of the driver and the passenger and inspect very carefully. Also, lift the rubber mat in the trunk to inspect underneath it. I live in CA and most of the w115s here have rust. So to find a car with minimal rust is very rare and fortunate. I wouldn't necessarily avoid buying a car with a small amount of rust, but you could use it as a point of negotiation.

Good luck with your purchase. I hope you have as much fun with your 240D and I have with my 220D.

[gmog220d]

A W115 diesel can be a great car. They are a nice mix of old and new. I prefer them to W123s for a variety of reasons. I had a '73 220D with a 240 engine in it I drove daily for about 8 years. I've now got a '74 240D that is a pampered garage queen.

The brown '74 sounds good with all the work that's been done, but I'd go check the white '75 out since it's close. One thing the brown '74 has going for it is the new seals for front and rear glass. Those seals dry out and leak, which causes rust in the front floors and in the trunk. Replacing those seals isn't easy or inexpensive. That being done could save you some grief down the road. The fresh seat padding is another plus for that car. Records and proven work done is a big pro. What books are included with it, exactly?

Perhaps there is a experienced member close to you who might be willing to check these cars out with you. If in your shoes I'd rather have someone who knows about these older diesel Benzes check one out with me than using a modern shop that lacks people who know or understand them. Running a compression test would give good information on the condition of the engine. An experienced ear can tell someone a lot, too.

Apart from evaluating the engines, there's a lot you can see for yourself. Pull up the mats in the passenger compartment and trunk and look for rust. Look underneath the car for signs of rust lurking around on the floor bottoms, in the rockers, and in the door bottoms. Check out the areas under and around the battery and brake master cylinder. Look closely at the areas of the body where the wheels kick up water and rocks. Put your eyes on every surface, nook and cranny, looking for corrosion. You'll have to look carefully because Benz used some pretty thick undercoatings that can hide the true extent of the rust. See any of that undercoating peeling back from seams? Check that out real close.

Is there a lot of oily residue underneath, around the engine and transmission? Rear diff nice and clean, or an oily mess? Axle boots intact? Were either of the cars ever re-painted? I might avoid the car if so - never know what the new paint is hiding.

Go check out the white one and post pics. We'll be happy to chime in.

[Holoublahee]

Thanks for the input and thats a lovely car! Also, great point about the miles. I was just going on what the sellers had said and trusting it. . I attached some photos of it that the owner sent me at the bottom. He sent TONS, but I'll only attach a few.

Having an experienced member come along to look at either or both cars would be great! Though I am not sure how many would be availalbe/willing in the Cleveland area (for the white car) or in Cincinnati for the brown one. I plan on taking the white car to a biodeisel conversion shop in Oberlin, my town, that knows the cars very well for the prepurchase check. There are a couple W123 owners who recommended him, and he is nearby and fair. I haven't found a mechanic in Cincinnati.

I also think both prices are steep. But over the last month and half or so of searching, I have had little luck finding any reasonable W115s under $5000. Even looking as far as California, I have struggled to find any good/decent example of either car and those that I have are all $7K+ (Here is a '76 red 240d for $11.3K, for example https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/5561147711.html). Do you have any tips or ideas on where I might look to find one at a more reasonable price? Finding a good car four around or under $4000 would be great as it would allow me to start investing in some tools earlier on. The price on the brown '74 is not very regotiable, the owner looked at the bills earlier and has put in about $16,000 and has right out refused other buyers who have offered $3,000. He said he might go down $5, but I doubt he will be willing to go any lower.

The white one has also been repainted and it did put me off a bit, but after speaking with the owner I think it was due to scratches or fading. Here's a link to the ad: https://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/5554072588.html
Keep in mind that the photos are 2+ years old.

Anyways, thanks again for all the help. Here are some of the pictures:

[joshhol]

Are they both automatics? A good solid thunk is normal through gear changes. Flaring is not

[Holoublahee]

Yes, both cars are automatics.

Sorry for the double post that was up for a little bit. I edited and fixed it. I'll just use this one to share a few more pictures of the brown '74!

[Holoublahee]

I looked through pretty much every state in the continental US and pulled up 4 more options that are intersting. Here are the links:

1975 mercedes 240d original owner
Mercedes 240D
https://albuquerque.craigslist.org/cto/5500077736.html
https://nashville.craigslist.org/cto/5565185421.html

Not sure if the two on the West Coast warrant the trip, or if what I have already found in my area is more worthwhile.

What do you think? I know the west has a lot less rust in general, but is it worth the 40hour drive?

[JeffreyNMemphis]

I like your enthusiasm! I hope you find the car of your dreams.

I have many years experience owning Classic Mercedes. In my humble opinion, I would not recommend a Classic Mercedes as a first and only car. The $4,000 car will cost $3,000 more in the first year to get it into a safe and reliable condition. If you have to pay a mechanic to buy parts and install them $3,000 will go much faster. Being without transportation while your car is getting repaired is inconvenient. Breaking down while driving from DC to Ohio would be very expensive and dangerous. Often the price difference between a $4,000 or $5,500 car can be worth much than the $1,500 difference. I would ask how much will it cost me to make the $4,000 car as good as the $5,500 car? $1,500 spends fast for a few repairs or on a 40 year old car. If $1,500 would make you choose the $4,000 car than buying a Classic Mercedes could be a disappointing experience.

It took me several years to buy the tools required for mechanical work on my cars. I would suggest owning a classic Mercedes as an extra second car, so you have something reliable to drive around to buy parts for your classic. If I could only have one car, it would not be a Classic Mercedes as much as I love them and am involved in restorations every day. My daily driver is a 2001 Mercedes E430.

You could buy a clean ten year-old E320 or a C280/C230 for $4,000 that will also need maintenance as every car does. I would not hesitate to drive from Texas to DC in my 2001 Mercedes.

This is advice I would give to my best friend on earth or a family member. I don't want to scare you off the idea of enjoying a Classic Mercedes. I hope you have a great experience with the brand and enjoy learning mechanics. My experience 25 years after my first Mercedes Benz informs these thoughts. When I was 25 nobody could have talked me out of my irrational desire for a 1972 280SE 4.5 V8 sedan. I loved that car but had to sell it at a loss when the engine work it needed was too expensive for me to afford. Years later I came back to Classics as extra vehicles so I don't get stranded and with tools and resources so I am not at the mercy of professionals who work to feed their families.

I hope only the best for you in whatever direction your quest takes you.

Life is good...

Jeffrey

[CTD]

The 220D and 240D W115's are pretty easy to get road-ready, and are cheaper to run and maintain than most other cars. I have one that I use as daily transportation to and from work 50 miles away, as well as on 3000+ mile road trips.

Some things I'd check out and go over before full-duty road service on one of these vehicles:

- Clutch hydraulics: master and slave cylinders, as well as the hose. The clutch hoses like to blow up when they turn 40 years old.
- Charging system: Alternator, voltage regulator, and battery. If the alternator's bad, replace the voltage regulator with it.
- Steering/Alignment - The rubber boots on the ball-joints and tie-rod ends in the front end can crack and cause the inner components to wear. The tie rods and ball joints are cheap and easy to replace. For uppers, I recommend getting just the ball joint rather than the entire control arm. I've also found that purchasing replacement tie rods is in some cases cheaper than replacing just the ends.
- Front crankshaft seal - Failure of this component will cause an oil leak in the front of the engine. Replacement is cheap.
- Hoses - The hoses around the heater valves near the firewall are often not replaced on these cars because some of them are hard to get from vendors other than the dealer. I'd check them for cracks. Replacements are readily available from Mercedes.

Other than that, enjoy your fun, simple, and reliable car!

[Holoublahee]

Thanks for the advice Jeffrey. I was a bit concerned with the costs, but I have heard overwhelmingly positive things about these cars and worst comes to come worst I can sell the car and recoup some of my money--likely not all, but some. I am actually quite excited about the self maintenance aspect of it. I also don't need a car daily, it would be driven 2-3 times a week on average and not having while its being worked on is not too big of a deal. I have gone 2 years on campus without a car already.

I definitely think the extra 1.5K for the brown 74' could be worth it especially since he has already put in a lot of work and fixed some of the more expensive things. But I do prefer the look of the white 75' (plus its closer and cheaper), and if getting it in a similar condition/road ready is too much work then I might opt for it instead. I will definitely take
immediate and likely future maintenance costs into consideration before choosing a car.

CTD, that's generally what I have heard about these cars and why I am so set on getting one--a good one to start. Thank you for the tips, I'll be sure to check those bits out on any car I get.

More generally, do you all think Craigslist is the best way to go about searching? I have had limited luck but I don't know of any other means. Also is there any way I could get cars far away from me looked at without having to make the trip so I can decide if the flight there is worth it? How could I go about that in places like Oregon/Washington/California/Arizona?

Thanks again for all the information, this has already been very helpful.

[BWhitmore]

Just post here the location of a car that you are interested in and I am sure an experienced forum member will volunteer to have a look before you spend any money/time to travel to see it.

[joshhol]

Another thing to consider based on the locations you are talking about commuting to (Ohio/D.C.), you would not want to drive the old Benz in the winter when salt is all over the place. That brown 240 is immaculate, it would be a shame to subject it to cancerous corrosives.
I, like JeffreynMemphis, have a rust resistant vehicle for year round use. Hope you have options for the seasonal changes.

[gmog220d]

The brown one looks great. If you go see it, it should drive nice, sound nice, feel nice. No cooling system leaks. Nice firm shifts. Solid brakes, no steering wheel pull due to alignment/front end issues. No major oil leaks. If the front subframe mounts are really bad it'll clunk when you tap the brakes with moderate pressure and let off quickly. If the rear trailing arm bushings are shot it'll drift one way under power and the other way on decel. You can tell a lot about how good/bad the suspension is by how the tires are worn, assuming they have a few miles on them.

If the driveshaft center mount rubber is shot you'll feel/hear a rumble from the tunnel when you take off from a stop. That could also mean the u-joint is bad, or both the u-joint and center mount are bad, and/or the flex discs are bad. Condition of all the rubber mounts/bushings should be high on the list of things to check, but these are generally easy to replace yourself and not too crazy expensive. Driveshaft work could be a PITA if you don't have a local shop that can do it.

Manual tranny would be nice, but an auto car could be converted relatively easily later on down the road, if wanted.

I'm going to Albuquerque next week and will be there for several days. I could take a look at the one listed there. Would be fun to see another W115 diesel up close.

X2 on all the costs that will be involved in using one of these old cars semi-daily. There will be things it needs, no matter how nice. $1500 more and records of work done up front could totally be worth it and save you a lot of headache. That said, once one of these W115s is together it can be a reliable car. My '73 was super consistent for years after all the suspension work, driveshaft work, brake work, engine swap, etc. Just needed fresh fluids, filters, annual valve adjustment, and occasional injector service to keep it going solid.

X2 on keeping it away from the winter salt. Sounds like you need two cars!

[Holoublahee]

Right, My plan is not to drive it/limit driving once roads start getting salted (Its usually only Feb-early march and I don't want to go out anyways). I am going to rent a garage at school, and leave it garaged whenever I am home in an effort to keep whatever car I get in good shape. I'll only be in these climates for 1, maybe 2 more winters so salt is hopefully only a short term concern, but a concern none the less.

BWhitmore, do you really think people would be willing to do that? I'd definitely be interested in having some of the further away cars looked at!

[gmog220d]

PM me your number and we can talk about the ABQ car check up. Happy to take a look at that one, provide a bunch of pics, etc. for you.