Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Vintage Mercedes Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-16-2018, 01:19 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Australia
Posts: 6
Trigger Point Conumdrum

Hmmm (1973 Mercedes SLC 450)
Newbie here - Please go easy :-) I inadvertently unhooked the trigger point connector ( It fell apart whilst trying to clean it -see photo) and in my stupidity may have hooked it up the wrong way. I have simply hooked corresponding colour to corresponding colour (except for the Yellow/blue wire which only has a yellow wire from the distributor - NOT the expected blue).
Anyway, whilst the engine coughed and spluttered for a little while now it won't fire at all.
I'm wondering whether I may have damaged something by mucking around (trying different sequences of connections) ? For eg: a fuse, coil, points or something more sinister.
Can anyone please suggest a 'check list'
of diagnosis so that I might cure this conundrum.
Thank you
Peter
Attached Thumbnails
Trigger Point Conumdrum-img_0620.png  
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:54 PM
cth350's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 3,718
Search history for D-Jet (D-Jetronic) threads.

There is a US service manual CD that has the troubleshooting steps for the system in general if you know how to use a multi-meter. The same CD also has the schematics.

A paper copy of the M117 cast iron 4.5l service manual would also have all of the above, if you should come across it.

HTH -CTH
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-16-2018, 10:29 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,959
it sounds like you just messed up the trigger points that were on the verge of breaking down anyway.

Search the D-Jetroinc forums on Porsches and Volvos, too. Porsche 914's used these during the early 70's; so did Volvo.

I think the Volvo guys came up with a work-a-round or an aftermarket fix of some sort.

The answer is out there.

And don't be afraid of the D-Jet system. If you have a volt meter you can test anything in the system. Parts are expensive, but with a bit of study you can crack the code and troubleshoot the entire system.

And when it works it works great.

A word of warning... If you crank the engine, and the plugs are not firing, and you keep cranking while testing, and then the plugs do fire..... Expect a very loud BANG when all that fuel fires off.

I, uh, saw a guy do this once.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-17-2018, 03:45 PM
Tomguy's Avatar
Vintage Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: near Scranton, PA
Posts: 5,096
There are 5 connectors... I think the worst you could have done was set one pair of injectors to fire constantly (as they are fired in pairs, ex 1 and 5 together).

If you left the key in the "Run" position with it not running though, you may have burned up a ballast resistor or even the ignition box. Check your spark.

Pull one pair from all of your plugs (every other cyl in the firing order). See if it's flooded. Disconnect the coil if you have spark, and crank it with the plugs out and your foot on accelerator pedal, and the pedal on the floor to clear it. You can also try a shot of starting fluid in the intake to see if it fires up on starting fluid, if it's not flooded.
__________________
Current:
2018 Chrysler Pacifica Limited
1999 Chrysler 300M - 211,xxx

My Mercedes Benz 108 and 109 resource site

Previous:
1972 280SE 4.5
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited "Hefe", 1992 Jeep Cherokee Laredo "Jeepy", 2006 Charger R/T "Hemi"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-19-2018, 11:22 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Australia
Posts: 6
Hi,
I might have just figured out the problem. Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears that someone has wired the trigger points up with the wrong order of

colours - Which means when I was trying to connect the wires from the ECU (Matching colour to colour) they would in fact NOT match. Could you please check the photo and see what you think???
Regards
Peter
1973 SLC 450
Attached Thumbnails
Trigger Point Conumdrum-img_0630.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-20-2018, 07:51 AM
engatwork's Avatar
busy
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Soperton, Ga. USA
Posts: 11,927
I've got a 72 350SL in the shop that is running rich and came across this thread. Thanks
__________________
Jim
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-20-2018, 08:10 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Australia
Posts: 6
Thanks for that,
At the moment i have them connected as you have stated (just in-line for the moment without the plastic connector) but still no luck. Does not fire at all... I checked the trigger points with an Ohm meter by rotating the shaft and it seemed to be working ( O Ohms to Infinity). So I am just about to start checking through what Dr D Jet recommends.
Any ideas would be great though....
Thanks
Peter
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-22-2018, 10:23 PM
cth350's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 3,718
one thing to check is the ground connections for the injectors. unbolt them and put it back together.

At starter speed an old fashioned analog multimeter can show you the needle wagging on connections at the trigger points and injectors. A modern digital meter would need to be on a dwell setting to get the same effect.

Follow the trouble shooting workflow in the book and you should be able to narrow it down to a specific faulty circuit and maybe a specific component.

-CTH
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-23-2018, 11:29 AM
Tomguy's Avatar
Vintage Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: near Scranton, PA
Posts: 5,096
If you want to just color match the wires, you'll need to find someone else with that setup to grab pics. I think only the 107 from 71 to 74 used that harness style? The 111 3.5, 108 and 109 3.5 and 4.5 plugged directly into the trigger points at the distributor and I THINK the 116 as well.
__________________
Current:
2018 Chrysler Pacifica Limited
1999 Chrysler 300M - 211,xxx

My Mercedes Benz 108 and 109 resource site

Previous:
1972 280SE 4.5
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited "Hefe", 1992 Jeep Cherokee Laredo "Jeepy", 2006 Charger R/T "Hemi"
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-24-2018, 10:30 AM
meltedpanda's Avatar
Certified Benzaholic
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central Ky
Posts: 6,086
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/sl-forum/297274-takes-cake-trigger-points-1972-a-7.html
page 7-8-9 of my journey may help , in fact this thread will tell you everything you EVERYthing you ever wanted to know about trigger points
__________________
Ron
2011 Porsche Cayman - Bond,James Bond
99 E320 THE Queen Mary
62 220b - Dolly - Finally my Finny!
72 450SL, Pearl-SOLD
16 F350 6.7 Diesel -THOR
07 Lexus RX 350 - Lexi
14 38HP John Deere 3038E Tractor -Mean Green
84 300SD, Benjamin -SOLD
71 220 - W115-Libby ( my first love) -SOLD
73 280 - W114 "Organspende" Rest in Peace
81 380 SL - Rest in Peace
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-13-2018, 04:14 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Australia
Posts: 6
ECU Analysis

I did the ECU analysis with a Multimeter. Obvious issues with the Throttle Switch and Pin 18 Starter circuit. Not sure if enough to stop it firing?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf DB_M117_450_EN.pdf (22.7 KB, 10 views)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:35 AM
meltedpanda's Avatar
Certified Benzaholic
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central Ky
Posts: 6,086
See if you can message Graham, he is a Djet guy, he may be able to shed some light .
He and I have worked through a few issues in the past
__________________
Ron
2011 Porsche Cayman - Bond,James Bond
99 E320 THE Queen Mary
62 220b - Dolly - Finally my Finny!
72 450SL, Pearl-SOLD
16 F350 6.7 Diesel -THOR
07 Lexus RX 350 - Lexi
14 38HP John Deere 3038E Tractor -Mean Green
84 300SD, Benjamin -SOLD
71 220 - W115-Libby ( my first love) -SOLD
73 280 - W114 "Organspende" Rest in Peace
81 380 SL - Rest in Peace
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-02-2018, 08:41 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Australia
Posts: 6
So I finally got the car to run. Still don't really understand how? cleaned 2 plugs and adjusted the gap on 1. Problem is you have to have the throttle full on to start the car and then it will only idle for about 30 seconds. I've tried to adjust the air screw but whilst it fixed the idle rpm it still eventually stalled.
Could it be the throttle switch not adjusted properly ( I had to take this off to fix it)?
Or could it be the points not adjusted properly. It is idling at 5 Degrees BTDC but I can't adjust it anymore towards TDC as the stopper bolt stops the distributor moving?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-02-2018, 11:22 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,230
You could have fouled spark plugs. Take all of them out and clean or replace them.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-02-2018, 04:25 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 8,959
You will see a lot of information out there that says throttle position sensors cannot be rebuilt. Maybe so, but they can be dismantled and inspected.

This is tricky work sometimes, sometimes not. Just removed the TPS, find the small tabs on the sides that hold the cover on and remove the cover. Easy, don't break the tabs.

The inside might be clean and bright or they might be frosted over. This can be cleaned and checked with the ohm meter. But many times you will find burned marks on the copper runs. These scorch marks can be filed off (sometimes) and the TPS make like almost new.

But if the burn marks are too deep or the the copper tracks are warped then you will just have to search for a good used one.

Sometimes these burned spots can be papered over with the same type of repairs you might make on a printed board, but this is precision work and should only be preformed if a replacement cannot be found. This is because this repair usually will not work that well if at all.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page