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  #16  
Old 06-13-2018, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
Slow moving parts cost more per unit to store than fast moving parts so they will be more $.

There are some CC parts that might sit for years or never move at all so parts that do sell need to cover this.

Seems like a good business opportunity for you to have parts made and sell them for 1/2 of MB no? What will you be selling?
That's a typical POV that exonerates their crazy pricing. How many parts do you buy each month? Small increases every year can be expected but when stuff goes CC and it jumps four times as much it's not due to storage or any other excuse you'd care to make for them.
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  #17  
Old 06-13-2018, 12:19 PM
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It depends, when I had my shop lots of parts across all makes. When I got my SL and C280, probably 2K in total getting them up to my standard.

Just be glad you can purchase old parts at all. For US domestic parts there are companies that buy up old inventory and resell it. They do not price out of production parts as if they were current production. Here is one that sells Ford parts. Main

The point still stands, Why are you not reproducing parts and selling them at less than the alleged 400% mark up MB makes? Seems like a sure thing if you sold parts at 200 % markup.
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  #18  
Old 06-13-2018, 12:36 PM
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You could buy a new benz and lose more money in 5 years and never hear some one say nice car.
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  #19  
Old 06-13-2018, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
It depends, when I had my shop lots of parts across all makes. When I got my SL and C280, probably 2K in total getting them up to my standard.

Just be glad you can purchase old parts at all. For US domestic parts there are companies that buy up old inventory and resell it. They do not price out of production parts as if they were current production. Here is one that sells Ford parts. Main

The point still stands, Why are you not reproducing parts and selling them at less than the alleged 400% mark up MB makes? Seems like a sure thing if you sold parts at 200 % markup.
Yes, I think about that. MB bought up a lot of old stock a few years back which is where some of their stuff comes from. I'm not a place that makes parts but we do restore a lot of stuff. K&K and a guy in Poland makes parts and both are producing small batch runs of pretty good stuff at less than half of what MB wants while doing OK selling them. Most of the stuff that can be reproduced already is so most of those options are already closed. Things that contain their logo can't be reproduced and since it's MB they stick it to you.
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  #20  
Old 06-17-2018, 03:52 PM
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Something about the potential for daily drivability and basic reliability of the W115 300D, while at the same time being very fashionable, gives me a sense it could be undervalued. It's well balanced, good on gas, ice cold AC, and relatively practical. I'd rather be driving it than a vintage SL, or pretty much any other Mercedes-Benz. Maybe it's just a personal feeling of discomfort in a valuable or expensive car, but it's nice that I can have what is my mind "the best" for a really affordable price.

Henry C.
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  #21  
Old 06-17-2018, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz Dr. View Post
Yes, I think about that. MB bought up a lot of old stock a few years back which is where some of their stuff comes from. I'm not a place that makes parts but we do restore a lot of stuff. K&K and a guy in Poland makes parts and both are producing small batch runs of pretty good stuff at less than half of what MB wants while doing OK selling them. Most of the stuff that can be reproduced already is so most of those options are already closed. Things that contain their logo can't be reproduced and since it's MB they stick it to you.
I was wondering about how old the supposedly 'new' MB parts are that I bought. Recently did trunk seal, windshield seal, and tail light seals. I suppose if they were in a moderate sealed environment, the age may be less the factor, but I nevertheless worry a bit with rubber. $1200 of rubber genuine MB front end bits about to be installed, I also worry on that end ..... but I suppose better than URO parts that are also ostensibly new but have been sitting.

H
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  #22  
Old 06-17-2018, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Benz Dr. View Post
Yes, I think about that.
But have not acted on making / selling parts. This reads like a Craigslist ad. " Does not run, probably something minor, don't have money to fix , lost interest , car is worth $ 50,000 running , will sell for $ 3,000. "

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz Dr. View Post
MB bought up a lot of old stock a few years back which is where some of their stuff comes from.
And that's my point. MB is fronting the $ to store / have these parts made. Anyone that does this is entitled to push the price to what ever level they feel the market will bear. If the price it too high, others will swoop in and make the parts for less $ , that is the way capitalism works.

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Originally Posted by Benz Dr. View Post
I'm not a place that makes parts but we do restore a lot of stuff.
Think about all of this the next time someone complains about what you charge.
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  #23  
Old 06-17-2018, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
But have not acted on making / selling parts. This reads like a Craigslist ad. " Does not run, probably something minor, don't have money to fix , lost interest , car is worth $ 50,000 running , will sell for $ 3,000. "



And that's my point. MB is fronting the $ to store / have these parts made. Anyone that does this is entitled to push the price to what ever level they feel the market will bear. If the price it too high, others will swoop in and make the parts for less $ , that is the way capitalism works.



Think about all of this the next time someone complains about what you charge.
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  #24  
Old 06-17-2018, 10:19 PM
Rook
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
But have not acted on making / selling parts. This reads like a Craigslist ad. " Does not run, probably something minor, don't have money to fix , lost interest , car is worth $ 50,000 running , will sell for $ 3,000. "



And that's my point. MB is fronting the $ to store / have these parts made. Anyone that does this is entitled to push the price to what ever level they feel the market will bear. If the price it too high, others will swoop in and make the parts for less $ , that is the way capitalism works.



Think about all of this the next time someone complains about what you charge.
Well, after maintaining a car for 40 years and investing thousands in rebuilding the head etc., I think I got a right to complain if Mercedes subsequently jacks up the price for parts out of proportion of what they used to charge for parts for a similarly aged car of theirs.

Last edited by Rook; 06-17-2018 at 10:30 PM.
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  #25  
Old 06-18-2018, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
But have not acted on making / selling parts. This reads like a Craigslist ad. " Does not run, probably something minor, don't have money to fix , lost interest , car is worth $ 50,000 running , will sell for $ 3,000. "



And that's my point. MB is fronting the $ to store / have these parts made. Anyone that does this is entitled to push the price to what ever level they feel the market will bear. If the price it too high, others will swoop in and make the parts for less $ , that is the way capitalism works.



Think about all of this the next time someone complains about what you charge.
No one complains because I never rip anyone off - I rarely charge full list price for anything and charge about $55.00 USD per hour. If I can't fix something I usually don't charge very much and if a job takes too long I'll give a guy a break. How many parts do you buy every month and how many cars have you restored?

MB used to have small increases in pricing every year and then all of a sudden it was 2 or 3 or even 4 times more in one go, sometimes their pricing makes no sense at all. I've seen people try to defend MB pricing before and you aren't the first to not understand the bigger picture.

I've been selling MB parts since 1988 as a K&K dealer so I have a pretty good idea of what parts prices are doing. I started restoring MB cars in 1977 so I guess I still have a lot to learn about my trade.

BTW, I'm a restoration shop not a manufacturer. And, you can't reproduce anything with a MB logo on it. Ever price a MB hub cap for a 190SL? A grill or even the star and barrel?
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  #26  
Old 06-19-2018, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Benz Dr. View Post
No one complains because I never rip anyone off - I rarely charge full list price for anything and charge about $55.00 USD per hour.
So why are you complaining about parts cost when apparently the customer isn't? If a customer has bought the 190SL referenced below in nearly any condition and is presenting it for restoration, they can't be considered poor.

If no one is complaining about price to the point you are losing a few jobs, you are not charging enough.

Your posted labor rate is painfully low and actual effective rate even lower when you take into account you charge less for long jobs.

Is this business your sole source of income? As in 5+ days a week 40+ hr a week? ( I do see below you have been selling parts since 77 and resto since 88. )

Some of this sounds like " Back in the day I could buy gasoline for $ 0.25 a gallon, those evil oil companies have pushed it to $ 3.00. "

Got any parts prices from decades gone by? What do these parts cost now? The only way to see true cost increases is to equalize $. And to some extent the exchange rate between countries. Here is the one for Canada https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/inflation-calculator/

In the US the inflation calculator is https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz Dr. View Post
If I can't fix something I usually don't charge very much and if a job takes too long I'll give a guy a break. How many parts do you buy every month and how many cars have you restored?
I've got 40 + years in and around the auto repair business, ran my own shop from the late 80's to late 90's then went into factory machinery repair. I'm still a consultant to a couple of shops when they get difficult electrical and other problems.

While I haven't done a full resto on an MB, I have done a body off frame rebuild on a 70's Chevy TK along with various race cars, some built from near scratch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz Dr. View Post
MB used to have small increases in pricing every year and then all of a sudden it was 2 or 3 or even 4 times more in one go, sometimes their pricing makes no sense at all. I've seen people try to defend MB pricing before and you aren't the first to not understand the bigger picture.
Here's a thought. What if the low prices were for old parts on the shelf and when they sold out, the new pricing is to cover a short run of freshly made parts to replace stock.

Would you had been happier if MB had charged the replacement rate for existing parts rather than actual costs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz Dr. View Post
I've been selling MB parts since 1988 as a K&K dealer so I have a pretty good idea of what parts prices are doing. I started restoring MB cars in 1977 so I guess I still have a lot to learn about my trade.
You probably don't need to learn more about restoring cars, however you may need to learn about how a profitable business is run. I know of a lot of shops that are skilled in their trade but are not good businessmen. These shops tend to struggle and complain about the cost of everything while the shops that get it ( and charge higher rates ) are always packed with customers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz Dr. View Post
BTW, I'm a restoration shop not a manufacturer.
If the parts prices were high enough, you would be finding someone to make parts for resale. An opportunity to make easy $ is being handed to you but you choose to ignore it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz Dr. View Post
And, you can't reproduce anything with a MB logo on it. Ever price a MB hub cap for a 190SL? A grill or even the star and barrel?
Not every part you buy is a logo. How many 190SL's were built and what is the current market? There is something called economy of scale in play when the cars are in production.

If only 50 hub caps are likely to be sold in the next few years, it gets very expensive to make these parts, also consider the tooling may have been long lost and it needs to be remade. New stamping and drawing dies take weeks of fine tuning to get right, do you want a clip on hub cap to fly off or get distorted when installed? Do you want these parts to reflect 50's manufacturing technology or should the parts be over restored Pebble Beach quality?
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  #27  
Old 06-19-2018, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
So why are you complaining about parts cost when apparently the customer isn't? If a customer has bought the 190SL referenced below in nearly any condition and is presenting it for restoration, they can't be considered poor.

If no one is complaining about price to the point you are losing a few jobs, you are not charging enough.

Your posted labor rate is painfully low and actual effective rate even lower when you take into account you charge less for long jobs.

Is this business your sole source of income? As in 5+ days a week 40+ hr a week? ( I do see below you have been selling parts since 77 and resto since 88. )

Some of this sounds like " Back in the day I could buy gasoline for $ 0.25 a gallon, those evil oil companies have pushed it to $ 3.00. "

Got any parts prices from decades gone by? What do these parts cost now? The only way to see true cost increases is to equalize $. And to some extent the exchange rate between countries. Here is the one for Canada https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/inflation-calculator/

In the US the inflation calculator is https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm



I've got 40 + years in and around the auto repair business, ran my own shop from the late 80's to late 90's then went into factory machinery repair. I'm still a consultant to a couple of shops when they get difficult electrical and other problems.

While I haven't done a full resto on an MB, I have done a body off frame rebuild on a 70's Chevy TK along with various race cars, some built from near scratch.



Here's a thought. What if the low prices were for old parts on the shelf and when they sold out, the new pricing is to cover a short run of freshly made parts to replace stock.

Would you had been happier if MB had charged the replacement rate for existing parts rather than actual costs?



You probably don't need to learn more about restoring cars, however you may need to learn about how a profitable business is run. I know of a lot of shops that are skilled in their trade but are not good businessmen. These shops tend to struggle and complain about the cost of everything while the shops that get it ( and charge higher rates ) are always packed with customers.



If the parts prices were high enough, you would be finding someone to make parts for resale. An opportunity to make easy $ is being handed to you but you choose to ignore it.



Not every part you buy is a logo. How many 190SL's were built and what is the current market? There is something called economy of scale in play when the cars are in production.

If only 50 hub caps are likely to be sold in the next few years, it gets very expensive to make these parts, also consider the tooling may have been long lost and it needs to be remade. New stamping and drawing dies take weeks of fine tuning to get right, do you want a clip on hub cap to fly off or get distorted when installed? Do you want these parts to reflect 50's manufacturing technology or should the parts be over restored Pebble Beach quality?
Lots of questions and comments and I actually don't mind discussing this with you.

I have one full time and one part time staff. I live about 3 hours from Toronto and the shop rate was kept low to attract business. I'm thinking about raising it.
I also farm 300 hundred acres so I have work to do spring and fall. One of my biggest problems out here was finding qualified help but I finally have that covered right now.
I'm 63 and have a few health problems so I'm really not that inclined to want to take on much more. My new guy is younger than me and gets stuff done quickly but my older guy is getting slow yet is highly skilled.

I'm not complaining about how much my shop makes. I question MB pricing as do a lot of people in the old MB trade. I was told recently that the CC is the most profitable division of MB. Some stuff as you point out is fairly priced for those reasons while other things are not. If after market operations can produce very small runs and make money at half the price then why does MB want so much more when they have everything available to make the same part?
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  #28  
Old 06-20-2018, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 801mbz View Post
You could buy a new benz and lose more money in 5 years and never hear some one say nice car.
This is so true.
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  #29  
Old 06-21-2018, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Tomas7 View Post
This is so true.
I was driving on the highway in my Fintail Mercedes when a guy driving an Aston Martin V12 slowed down to give me a thumbs up approval gesture. My car cost less than his next oil change.
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  #30  
Old 06-21-2018, 01:29 PM
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I wonder what my 170d might be worth, 1950 is vintage, yes?
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