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  #1  
Old 09-03-2018, 03:28 PM
mercifiknow
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: in a land that time forgot
Posts: 25
Complete Restoration Advice of my 1970 W114 250C

Hello Everyone,

I have a 1970 W114 250C and Iíve been working on it off and on for the better part of 3 yrs now fixing some things. The rocker panels are rusted out (completely) and thatís the extent of the rust on the car that is glaring. Iím not foolish enough to think that there isnít more but thatís what Iíve seen so far. So now to the topic at hand.

Iím wanting to restore it back to the original show room floor condition as much as possible. Not worth it, I know but this is my project and I like the car. Anyways, I want to start somewhere but not real sure where to begin as I donít want to completely disassemble this as I know there are some things I cannot do as I donít have the talent or ability (handicap with severe mobility restrictions essentially since birth from rheumatoid arthritis) and will need to go to a shop here in town for completing. For instance body work will have to be done by a shop as well as engine work/cleaning. So this will be a rolling restoration (donít plan on driving it much and is garage kept).

Where would you start? Iím thinking engine bay. I know my windshield washer system isnít working and would be a somewhat quick fix/restore. So finding parts might be the only thing that might be an issue. So in this particular case the pump would be the part that might give me a headache. Where does one find what came on these cars originally? Is there forum that has this info? I have the build sheet from Mercedes Classic Car Center.

I figure I will do as much as I can to to help mitigate the cost before it goes to a professional shop to finish it. My thoughts are to do rear axle/wheels/brakes same for front and as much as I could in the engine bay. Of course this may not be a lot if money in the grand scheme of things either. I was thinking that the cost to restore would be in the $30-$35,000 range if I paid someone.

Thanks for the help in advance!!!
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  #2  
Old 09-03-2018, 05:06 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,788
Stat with all the things that would keep your car from passing a safety check. Cosmetic items should be further down your list.

I have two of these things so I have a few spare parts for them.
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  #3  
Old 09-03-2018, 05:46 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 7,179
The number one rule is _not_ to take everything apart then try to put it back together. Many cars meet their end this way, look at " For sale, lost interest " cars on Craigslist. Taking apart is easy / fun/ putting together take lots of work.

You really need to get a handle on body rust first. Rockers on these cars are structural so start there if that is truly the only rust. The rockers will need to be cut and welded in not tapped down and puttied over.

If the shell is too rusty, consider looking for another car and using current one as a parts car.
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  #4  
Old 09-03-2018, 07:14 PM
Rook
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 53
I thought my windscreen washer didn’t work on my ‘69 280S but it was just clogged and when I pressed the foot pump it was popping off the hose from the reservoir to the nozzle.
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  #5  
Old 09-04-2018, 03:54 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: PA
Posts: 392
You need to consult and work with someone who restores Mercedes, not just a general shop. The results will be poor if you don't.
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'80 300SD - '83 240D - '00 E55 AMG - '97 Land Rover D1
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  #6  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:22 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 5,005
Careful, there are a lot of crooks in this industry. Many projects end up taking twice as long and costing 3 times as much.
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With best regards

Al

Check out the W114, W115 enthusiast website.
http://www.stroke8.org

http://www.w108.org

Join the Mercedes W108 group
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/mercedesw108/

My 280SL restoration

http://www.w108.org/gallery/albums/a...0959.thumb.jpg
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  #7  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:47 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Miami Beach, Florida
Posts: 482
I've been doing that to my 76 280C. I started with the things the car needed in order to run properly. In my case, the brakes since it does need to stop and it wasn't. I then proceeded with tuning the motor, carb, plugs, cables, coil, etc.
Then I went on ahead and redid my suspension.
Salt and peppered in there were cosmetic things and stuff that broke along the way.
I am out of town for a while so the car is at my daughter's house having my son-in-law fix every spec of rust in the car....seen and unseen.
I know that I am spending more than the car is worth or will be worth but... I, my son, my daughters, my brother LOVE the car so I don't care how much I spend or will spend. This car will never be sold since it will stay in the family forever or until it falls apart, whichever comes first.
BTW my son learned to drive in this car, he was 12, he's 25 now.
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1976 280C
SLOWER DRIVERS KEEP TO THE RIGHT.
DRIVE RIGHT PASS LEFT
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  #8  
Old 09-05-2018, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas7 View Post
I know that I am spending more than the car is worth or will be worth but..

Spending more on a car than it is worth is only a factor when the car in question is a sub 7 year old commodity and an exact replacement can be found on most any used car lot.

It becomes more and more difficult to find good examples as the cars get older so fixing what one has is a better option. . . until the shell gets so rusty that proper repair consists of replacing the entire lower section of the car.

And then this is the best option
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTgjWD7a67M

80's 190E body on C63 AMG Project
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  #9  
Old 09-05-2018, 04:13 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,665
I recently visited the Classic Car Museum in Kearney, NE. They have a 280C that is in showroom condition.

I don't know that they would let you get that close to it to take photos for reference work, but you could always ask. I got the impression that the place is run by a bunch of gear heads that understand a person's desire to get things right.

This car is one that has the vent mounted mirrors (which is guess is what you would call them) but beyond that I doubt that much would be different from the one your have. Except for maybe the bumpers.

One thing that struck me was how all of the chrome had been redone. And I mean all of it. We are used to seeing the windshield trim being a flat aluminum color. These were bright chrome. I am still not sure that's how it came from the factory. Anyone know for sure?

I remember shopping for one of these when they were new but I can't recall what was hard chromed and what was not as far as window treatment trim was concerned.
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  #10  
Old 09-05-2018, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idle View Post
I recently visited the Classic Car Museum in Kearney, NE. They have a 280C that is in showroom condition.

I don't know that they would let you get that close to it to take photos for reference work, but you could always ask. I got the impression that the place is run by a bunch of gear heads that understand a person's desire to get things right.

This car is one that has the vent mounted mirrors (which is guess is what you would call them) but beyond that I doubt that much would be different from the one your have. Except for maybe the bumpers.

One thing that struck me was how all of the chrome had been redone. And I mean all of it. We are used to seeing the windshield trim being a flat aluminum color. These were bright chrome. I am still not sure that's how it came from the factory. Anyone know for sure?

I remember shopping for one of these when they were new but I can't recall what was hard chromed and what was not as far as window treatment trim was concerned.
The aluminium trim around the windows and other places is not chrome plated but is anodized or '' bright dip. ''

I wasn't aware that a 280C was a classic car. I'll need to make a note of that.
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  #11  
Old 09-05-2018, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz Dr. View Post
I wasn't aware that a 280C was a classic car. I'll need to make a note of that.

Those that remember cars when new will always consider them " used cars " even 40 years down the road.

Those that had never seen these cars when new will consider them Antique , Classic , Historic.

I don't get caught up on terminology.
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  #12  
Old 09-05-2018, 09:30 PM
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Location: Miami Beach, Florida
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"Classic Car Museum" sounds better than "Antique Car Museum".
To a lot of people old European cars are all "Classic".
__________________

1976 280C
SLOWER DRIVERS KEEP TO THE RIGHT.
DRIVE RIGHT PASS LEFT
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  #13  
Old 09-06-2018, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas7 View Post
"Classic Car Museum" sounds better than "Antique Car Museum".
To a lot of people old European cars are all "Classic".

I only recognize real ACCCA as being true Classics. Something this new wouldn't even qualify as a a Milestone car. I have a pair of 280C's so I know what they are. I also have a 190SL, a 230SL, a 250SL, and a 280SE 3.5 coupe, all of which are Milestone cars. None are classic cars.

The problem with going only on the age of the car is that eventually 2018 cars will be called classics 25 years from now. It dumps all old cars into the same box when they're clearly not all the same.
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  #14  
Old 09-06-2018, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz Dr. View Post
I only recognize real ACCCA as being true Classics.
The only automotive related hit is the Arizona division of the Classic Car Club of America started in 1952. They even have a very restricted list of approved cars. I suspected you would be referring to an elitist club.

http://www.classiccarclub.org/pdfs/2018%20CCCA%20List%20of%20Approved.pdf


Sure, the club can decide what cars they want to accept but that does not make them the global authority even though they registered the words " CCA Full Classics ".

Long ago the AACA Antique Automobile Club of America (AACA) - An Introduction To AACA | About AACA recognized that newer cars must be added to the fold otherwise membership would drop off.

Quote:
The demonstrated flexibility of the classification system, tuned to the times, has been essential to achieving this growth.

In 1953 early Model A Ford cars were included in a new Class 18, "Antique Cars w/four-wheel brakes." No major changes occurred until February, 1957, when a new automotive definition and class was introduced, "Class 20 - Production Cars, 1930 to 25 years of age. In 1959 the 1928-1931 Model A's were pulled from Classes 18 and 20, and placed into their own class. In 1960, Production car and truck classes were frozen, with a 1935 cutoff date. A 1948 cutoff date was established for Classic cars.

These rules remained basically unchanged until 1968, when a new rule was introduced, which allowed expansion by one year every other year. Then, the July-August, 1974 issue of ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE announced the inclusion of vehicles 25 years old and older into the classifications, effective February 1, 1975. This rule continues in effect today.

During ensuing years, separate classes were implemented to separate Ford V-8 cars, Chevrolet Corvettes, Ford Thunderbirds, Ford Mustangs, 1955-57 Chevrolets, and others. New categories were developed for "specifically named Prestige cars" and "Limited Production and Prototype vehicles". In 1988 the Historical Preservation of Original Features (HPOF) class was implemented, and has proven to be very popular. Today, Drivers Participation vehicles dot the showfield, providing ample opportunity for car lovers to be a big part of AACA.

Weíve grown with the times and while we still love to polish brass, there is room for every automotive interest in AACA.

The irony of all of this is the CCA was formed when the AACA would not allow late 20's / early '30s cars in their shows as they were considered too modern and only begrudgingly let them in as class 19 as " Tow cars " ( see my prior post about " Used cars " ) Classic Car Club of America ? Mission & History


Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz Dr. View Post
The problem with going only on the age of the car is that eventually 2018 cars will be called classics 25 years from now. It dumps all old cars into the same box when they're clearly not all the same.

To some extent the CCA does some of this wildly different cars in one box now, they mix mid teen and pre 41/ 48 cars in with high end late 20's / early '30s when there are really 3 distinct eras of cars.

The general public is going to use antique , classic , historic interchangeably and that's just fine. I'm sure an audiophile would scoff at the general public using generic terms but the person driving 300 miles today just wants something different than listening to the engine moanin' out his one note song.

In 1995 I bought Mom a 1991 Dodge Spirit, she still has the car and at 27 years it is considered an antique by most. I see it as a 91 Dodge Spirit in nice survivor condition.

A few times, older guys have looked at the car and smiled remembering their younger days. . . and ain't dat da point?
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  #15  
Old 09-06-2018, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
The only automotive related hit is the Arizona division of the Classic Car Club of America started in 1952. They even have a very restricted list of approved cars. I suspected you would be referring to an elitist club.

http://www.classiccarclub.org/pdfs/2018%20CCCA%20List%20of%20Approved.pdf


Sure, the club can decide what cars they want to accept but that does not make them the global authority even though they registered the words " CCA Full Classics ".

Long ago the AACA Antique Automobile Club of America (AACA) - An Introduction To AACA | About AACA recognized that newer cars must be added to the fold otherwise membership would drop off.




The irony of all of this is the CCA was formed when the AACA would not allow late 20's / early '30s cars in their shows as they were considered too modern and only begrudgingly let them in as class 19 as " Tow cars " ( see my prior post about " Used cars " ) Classic Car Club of America ? Mission & History





To some extent the CCA does some of this wildly different cars in one box now, they mix mid teen and pre 41/ 48 cars in with high end late 20's / early '30s when there are really 3 distinct eras of cars.

The general public is going to use antique , classic , historic interchangeably and that's just fine. I'm sure an audiophile would scoff at the general public using generic terms but the person driving 300 miles today just wants something different than listening to the engine moanin' out his one note song.

In 1995 I bought Mom a 1991 Dodge Spirit, she still has the car and at 27 years it is considered an antique by most. I see it as a 91 Dodge Spirit in nice survivor condition.

A few times, older guys have looked at the car and smiled remembering their younger days. . . and ain't dat da point?
All you did there was find stuff to agree with your POV. The classifications you refer to, using their data, is for showing at concourse events. I've been to many of these shows and showed some of my stuff a couple of times.

If you want to call your 20 year old car a classic, go ahead. Of course, you missed the point by a mile...........
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