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  #1  
Old 11-21-2019, 07:47 AM
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W111 Missing Parts Help

Hi all,

I'm a complete newcomer to the world of classic Mercs but have just got my first project, a 1961 200Sb.

I'm struggling to find a good place to start with the basics of finding out what should be where. Does anyone have any recommendations for a good book or guide with illustrations and/or part numbers?

Also, from this photo, which parts appear to be missing? So far, I believe it to be the brake booster ( I assume this is essential), washer bottle, oil filler cap (that actually fits), battery, battery clamp. Anything else?

All help very much appreciated. Many thanks in advance.



Link to high-res photo:

https://i.imgur.com/5SNSdDB.jpg

Edit: It's a 4-on-the-tree gear shift with manual clutch, so I'm wondering if perhaps it was converted from a Hydrak system at some point and the brake booster removed in the process. I feel like (what looks like) the clutch fluid reservoir would have clashed with a brake booster in this position. Also, the brake master cylinder appears to be bolted in, not loose. I.e. perhaps not robbed of a booster for another car.


Last edited by TomHM; 11-21-2019 at 10:18 AM.
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  #2  
Old 11-21-2019, 02:04 PM
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Your brake booster is remote and mounted in the front of the engine compartment next to the radiator. Follow the brake lines. The vacuum reservoir for a Hydrak would have been behind the splash panel under the driver's side fender. Unlikely that it was ever a Hydrak. I'd start with a battery and see if it turns over, and go from there.
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  #3  
Old 11-21-2019, 03:07 PM
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Dobrodan, thanks so much for your reply. You've no idea how reassuring those words are! I committed to buying the car yesterday and it's my first foray into mercs. It's still in storage so I took a few photos. Upon reviewing them, I started to panic a bit about what I'm letting myself in for as it looks different to the photos I've seen.

The engine turns over and the garage says that they've had it running briefly on a bit of easy start. The brakes are known to need work, though currently unknown exactly what. My plan will be to change all fluids, fit a battery and see where it all leaks out again.

In hindsight, I must sound like a right numpty by not following the brake lines but I didn't notice anything potentially different until I got home.
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  #4  
Old 11-21-2019, 03:16 PM
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The brake booster on this was a dealer added item. I think every US delivery car had one and in the rest of the world they were added if the customer needed one. Power brakes were considered to be a luxury item back then. Remember: A lot of Mercedes customers then had been driving since the 1920s and power anything was a luxury item.

Dual zone heating? Why don't we just put a man on the moon!

On later cars the booster was mounted on the firewall where you would expect it to be. On the early cars there was a big empty space since a lot of these cars didn't have power steering. The power steering pump took up the space the old boosters used. When you have both on an early car it is rather tight.

But if you follow the brake lines you will see the booster mounted just in front of the battery and behind the radiator. It is not small. But it could have been removed. Shoot a photo of that area and almost anyone here can tell you if it is still there.

The cap was likely replaced since a past owner didn't want to mess with finding a new gasket when they could just pick up a cap that worked. The gaskets are easy to find right here on Pelican's site.
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Old 11-21-2019, 03:51 PM
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Thanks Idle. This information is golden.

I'll get a few more photos (with a better camera) when I'm next down there. I've moved over from the world of classic VWs so I'm used to basic and unassisted everything, though they're considerably lighter vehicles to start with. I know pretty much every nut and bolt on them but I feel like I'm starting again now. That includes the sense of excitement and adventure too so it's all good.

It's seems like info on the Fintails is a bit harder to come by. I can find lots on the Pontons and the later models but less, online at least, on this one.
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  #6  
Old 11-21-2019, 05:07 PM
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Oh, and the cap is a press-and-twist type, totally different fitment to the threaded rocker cover. It's literally just resting on there! I'm amazed it hasn't fallen off.
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  #7  
Old 11-22-2019, 03:59 AM
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Look at the completed auctions at BAT. Some of the vehicles have pretty good and detailed pictures.
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111 280SE 3.5 Coupe
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Old 11-22-2019, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony H View Post
Look at the completed auctions at BAT. Some of the vehicles have pretty good and detailed pictures.
Good idea! I've found a 1962 220Sb on there that has some great reference photos. Thanks.
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Old 11-22-2019, 05:24 AM
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This is a good book. Not a workshop manual by any means but good reading and stuff.
If you are parts hunting the 63 and prior cars are considerably different especially in the brake system. The firewall is different so you can't just bolt up the newer way better parts either unfortunately. The gentleman stating earlier that some were non power brake is incorrect I'm pretty sure. All the mecredes I own are power brake From a 1959 190b to 1980's. The pre 64 cars had single circuit master and remote mount boosters. My 63 220Sb has the same and my 64 220b has dual circuit master with the clutch master mounted to the pedal with a separate plastic resovior on the firewall/fender well area with a hose going down under the dash. Even my bottom of the line 64 190c has power brakes. Later cars actually have a port the just takes fluid from the brake master resovior for the clutch.

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  #10  
Old 11-22-2019, 06:24 AM
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Great, thanks for the recommendation. With (dare I say it) Christmas around the corner, I've added that one to my Amazon wishlist.

Having now referenced a few other photos online, I'm now certain mine has the brake booster. I distinctly remember noticing a bulky item in this location, and the blue paint on the cylinder. In fact, I can partially see it on the seller's advert:


I'm quickly learning that Mercedes evolved their designs considerably more drastically than the basic old VWs of the past.
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Old 11-22-2019, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idle View Post
The brake booster on this was a dealer added item. I think every US delivery car had one and in the rest of the world they were added if the customer needed one. Power brakes were considered to be a luxury item back then.
I have never heard of a dealer-added brake booster. Didn't some Fintails (particularly 1961 era) come without power brakes?

Like others have said, follow the brake lines and if they go to the 4 wheels then you are good to go.

You may want to get this book: Service Manual Maintenance, Tuning, Unit Replacement Passenger Cars starting August 1959. I have an extra that I'm willing to part with for $75 plus shipping (it's big and heavy).
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Old 11-22-2019, 06:45 PM
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Thanks for the offer Scooter, but I'm in the UK so I imagine shipping would be a lot.
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Old 11-22-2019, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHM View Post
Thanks for the offer Scooter, but I'm in the UK so I imagine shipping would be a lot.
Shipping would be awful. Look on ebay, sometimes you find them. It's available from MB on CD but I never liked that version as much.
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Old 11-22-2019, 07:55 PM
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The parts diagrams are great to see what parts go where and also get all the part numbers

https://nemigaparts.com/cat_spares/epc/mercedes/1/

MB will be one of the best suppliers of many parts.
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  #15  
Old 11-22-2019, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooterABC View Post
Shipping would be awful. Look on ebay, sometimes you find them. It's available from MB on CD but I never liked that version as much.
Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumb View Post
The parts diagrams are great to see what parts go where and also get all the part numbers

https://nemigaparts.com/cat_spares/epc/mercedes/1/

MB will be one of the best suppliers of many parts.
Bookmarked. That's a great resource. Glad I was already sitting down when I saw some of those prices.

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