1973 280 CE Questions

[SoyUnaFuente]

Hello everyone, I been trying to do some research on a 1973 280 CE that's my dads, he has it since it came out and it hasn't ran in more than 10 years, the good part is that is has no rust, the bad part is that its going to need a windshield, the hood ornament and a driver side headlight on the cosmetic department but the reason this car wasn't used anymore is because it simply didn't start, It has 21000 km (13048 miles) and we never found out why it stopped starting years ago.

My dad did bring a mechanic a long time ago, diagnosed as a bad fuel pump but we never heard back from the guy and It seems like a good starting point; I never diagnosed an old vehicle and I got a couple of questions

1. Where can I find parts for this specific engine model (All I can find online are for the 280C, the 280CE designation only comes in 1976 but as far as I know this is the 1973 model)
2. Apart from the fuel pump, what would be a place to start diagnosing (distributor, starter, alternator)
3. Recommended part sites (I know of FCP Euro and Pelican parts, but those don't seem to have the 1973 CE option on the filters)
4. If the engine were to start after the diagnosis and repairs, what are the long overdue services (all the fluids, belts, spark plugs, etc)

Also as you can see in the picture attached, there is the only number I could find that identify the model but searching those model numbers didn't yield much.


Also I been tinkering with it for a bit and I found out some parts that need replacing, the spark plugs wires, some are broken and I need a new set that i cannot find at *******; it also need the valve cover gasket and it seems that the head gasket it leaking some oil on the back part. I also found out this is using the m110 engine.



I will also need to drop the fuel tank whatever fuel is in there is probably rotten at this point.


Last important bit of information this car was assembled in Venezuela as part of something called a knockdown kit basically the parts where imported from mercedes benz in Europe and assembled here.


Here are the pictures of the engine itself https://imgur.com/a/CPjpMFM

[Usaguy]

Originally Posted by SoyUnaFuente

I know of FCP Euro and Pelican parts, but those don't seem to have the 1973 CE option on the filters

That's because there were no gasoline fuel injected 114 sold in the USA.

Your car should be using the D-Jetronic system.

You may want to find a part diagram website (mbepc.net) to look up the numbers because we had a few D-Jetronic cars sold here (450 SE/SEL/SL, 280SE 4.5, 3.5, Porsche 914, VW type 3 and probably others) so some parts may be interchangeable

[SoyUnaFuente]

Originally Posted by christuna

That's because there were no gasoline fuel injected 114 sold in the USA.

Your car should be using the D-Jetronic system.

You may want to find a part diagram website (mbepc.net) to look up the numbers because we had a few D-Jetronic cars sold here (450 SE/SEL/SL, 280SE 4.5, 3.5, Porsche 914, VW type 3 and probably others) so some parts may be interchangeable

Well that explains it, this car was assembled in venezuela as a knockdown kit, basically the parts where imported from mercedes in germany and put together here.


That site looks really good, I managed to find the European 280 CE that matches with the Identification plaque on the hood.


Didn't knew the fuel system was called D-jectronic, looking at the diagrams for the fuel system seems pretty straight forward.

[Idle]

That has to be a D-Jet. It has a D-Jet MAP sensor.

So as a D-jet it has, in the distributor, a very special part that is prone to failing. These are known as Trigger Points. (Trigger points are always referred to in the plural sense but they are one assembly.) Check to see if you are getting spark at the plugs. If not look up how to check the trigger points.

A good thing about the D-Jet is you can check all of it with a voltmeter and a vacuum pump.

There are detailed instructions on how to troubleshoot the Bosch D-Jet System on line.

[Idle]

Be careful on buying the windshield. The sedan, which is common, uses a different one from the coupe.

You see these come up for sale on Evil Bay now and then. I think you might be looking at around $400 for the glass itself and then something for shipping. This would be so large to ship it might be best to find one near your home and go pick it up.

What part of the country are you located in? Someone near you might have one for sale.

[Frank Reiner]

Originally Posted by Idle

That has to be a D-Jet. It has a D-Jet MAP sensor.

So as a D-jet it has, in the distributor, a very special part that is prone to failing. These are known as Trigger Points. (Trigger points are always referred to in the plural sense but they are one assembly.) Check to see if you are getting spark at the plugs. If not look up how to check the trigger points.

A good thing about the D-Jet is you can check all of it with a voltmeter and a vacuum pump.

There are detailed instructions on how to troubleshoot the Bosch D-Jet System on line.

The Trigger Points (two sets) provide a timing pulse to the injection system, not the ignition. They are located below the breaker plate of the ignition points, and are not visible.

The ignition points (one set) are visible when the distributor cap is removed. The ignition components are the same as for a carbureted engine.

[SoyUnaFuente]

Originally Posted by Idle

That has to be a D-Jet. It has a D-Jet MAP sensor.

So as a D-jet it has, in the distributor, a very special part that is prone to failing. These are known as Trigger Points. (Trigger points are always referred to in the plural sense but they are one assembly.) Check to see if you are getting spark at the plugs. If not look up how to check the trigger points.

A good thing about the D-Jet is you can check all of it with a voltmeter and a vacuum pump.

There are detailed instructions on how to troubleshoot the Bosch D-Jet System on line.

Thanks for all the tips, the first order of business here is dropping the tank and cleaning it and see the state of the fuel pump this has had gas for almost 10 years if not more.


I took the valve cover off to see and the gasket is damaged, on the front and on the back its gonna need a new one and also I believe a head gasket because although the old coolant in there seemed good its leaking out the left side on the back; found a gasket kit and its honestly pretty inexpensive and has everything.


Also 2 of the 6 spark plugs wires were broken and put in there with tape, so a new set is in order and also a injector cleaning wouldn't hurt and new oil filter and fuel filter would help too.


As for the windshield Ill probably go to a junkyard for it cheaper than having it ship from USA, I'm just getting the parts from there.

[SoyUnaFuente]

Originally Posted by Frank Reiner

The Trigger Points (two sets) provide a timing pulse to the injection system, not the ignition. They are located below the breaker plate of the ignition points, and are not visible.

The ignition points (one set) are visible when the distributor cap is removed. The ignition components are the same as for a carbureted engine.

Im gonna see how it all works with the diagrams on the page, would there be any other site that has like a factory manual for the m110?

[Usaguy]

Originally Posted by SoyUnaFuente

Im gonna see how it all works with the diagrams on the page, would there be any other site that has like a factory manual for the m110?

startekinfo manual for the M110 in the W123 has a lot of info.

just keep in mind that the M110 in W123 uses a mechanical K-Jetronic system and your car has a D-Jetronic (Completely different systems)

Link: https://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outside/12265/program/engine_77_e.htm

.

[SoyUnaFuente]

Originally Posted by christuna

startekinfo manual for the M110 in the W123 has a lot of info.

just keep in mind that the M110 in W123 uses a mechanical K-Jetronic system and your car has a D-Jetronic (Completely different systems)

Link: https://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outside/12265/program/engine_77_e.htm

.

Thanks for that, it will work great, I just needed it to see how to change the engine gaskets; as for the D-Jectronic another user told me that there are good write ups online to diagnose it.

[rbtoj]

If you are going to change the valve cover gasket it would be a good idea to check and adjust the valves. The manual christuna pointed should explain the procedure.

[cth350]

write stuff down and do it in a reasonable order.
I'd suggest NOT taking the engine apart as step 1.

If you know about a coolant leak and an oil leak, it sounds like you've put a fresh battery in the car and turned the key and confirmed that the starter works and the engine turns.

The next step would be, like you've said, to drop the tank and get it boiled out. Replace the rubber fuel lines. There is a plug at the bottom of the tank that you can remove. It's filter. Clean it by soaking it in fresh kerosene. If it's too cruddy, buy a fresh one.

If the fuel pump was declared bad, it probably is. You can test that with a multi-meter while a friend turns the key. You should have 12 volts measured at the pump. If it's bad, it will be dead silent. If you don't have 12 volts when you turn the key, there are several places where there could be fault. Ignore that for the moment and take the pump off the car along with the fuel filter and bench test the pump by jumping it to the batter with a small inline fuse.

While you are waiting for the fuel tank to come back from getting cleaned, test your ignition system. You mentioned bad plug wires, replace them. The wires from any car with an M110 will do. If the wire from the coil to the distributor is good, hook up your timing light to it and the the starter run. Starter speed is about 200rpm and if your ignition circuit is intact, you should see a pretty steady set of pulses from the timing light. If not, look up the ignition circuit for any vintage 73-74 car and read about the transistorized ignition system. That box on the fender with the ribs is the controller. There are two ballast resistors, the coil and "normal" points in the distributor for it just under the distributor cap.

As mentioned already, there is a second set of points in the distributor under that. Those are the trigger points for the injectors. Worry about that after you have fuel in the tank and you've confirmed the ignition is sound.

There is a search feature in this forum that will find you a wealth of information about all these things. DJet and D-jet are synonyms for D-jetronic. As for a manual, there is an old paperback book for the M110 engines that contains section 7.4. Later versions don't have it. That is the section that describes the 6 cylinder d-jet system. From that book, you want the schematic. Everything else is pretty much the same as a 450se, except the number of cylinders.

Adjusting the valves is another thing to do while waiting for the tank to be ready. You should know that the M110 engine is a layer cake with a block, head, cam box and then valve cover. Your oil leak may be at the cam cover to head boundary and not the head to the block one.

Lastly, cool car! That coupe in red is sight to behold. And with a standard transmission, fun too. There was a windshield for sale on Craig's list in Baltimore recently. I think it's also mentioned in the parts forum here. That post will be a month or two old by now.

Where are you and the car located?

-CTH

[SoyUnaFuente]

Originally Posted by cth350

write stuff down and do it in a reasonable order.
I'd suggest NOT taking the engine apart as step 1.

If you know about a coolant leak and an oil leak, it sounds like you've put a fresh battery in the car and turned the key and confirmed that the starter works and the engine turns.

The next step would be, like you've said, to drop the tank and get it boiled out. Replace the rubber fuel lines. There is a plug at the bottom of the tank that you can remove. It's filter. Clean it by soaking it in fresh kerosene. If it's too cruddy, buy a fresh one.

If the fuel pump was declared bad, it probably is. You can test that with a multi-meter while a friend turns the key. You should have 12 volts measured at the pump. If it's bad, it will be dead silent. If you don't have 12 volts when you turn the key, there are several places where there could be fault. Ignore that for the moment and take the pump off the car along with the fuel filter and bench test the pump by jumping it to the batter with a small inline fuse.

While you are waiting for the fuel tank to come back from getting cleaned, test your ignition system. You mentioned bad plug wires, replace them. The wires from any car with an M110 will do. If the wire from the coil to the distributor is good, hook up your timing light to it and the the starter run. Starter speed is about 200rpm and if your ignition circuit is intact, you should see a pretty steady set of pulses from the timing light. If not, look up the ignition circuit for any vintage 73-74 car and read about the transistorized ignition system. That box on the fender with the ribs is the controller. There are two ballast resistors, the coil and "normal" points in the distributor for it just under the distributor cap.

As mentioned already, there is a second set of points in the distributor under that. Those are the trigger points for the injectors. Worry about that after you have fuel in the tank and you've confirmed the ignition is sound.

There is a search feature in this forum that will find you a wealth of information about all these things. DJet and D-jet are synonyms for D-jetronic. As for a manual, there is an old paperback book for the M110 engines that contains section 7.4. Later versions don't have it. That is the section that describes the 6 cylinder d-jet system. From that book, you want the schematic. Everything else is pretty much the same as a 450se, except the number of cylinders.

Adjusting the valves is another thing to do while waiting for the tank to be ready. You should know that the M110 engine is a layer cake with a block, head, cam box and then valve cover. Your oil leak may be at the cam cover to head boundary and not the head to the block one.

Lastly, cool car! That coupe in red is sight to behold. And with a standard transmission, fun too. There was a windshield for sale on Craig's list in Baltimore recently. I think it's also mentioned in the parts forum here. That post will be a month or two old by now.

Where are you and the car located?

-CTH

hey there, Actually i havent been able to do much heavy work on the mercedes in terms of teardown, I was honestly thinking of dropping the tank first since it has rotten gas in it and any attempt to start it would just contaminate the lines and fuel system.


As for parts this is what I got coming my way:

• Spark plugs wires
• spark plugs
• engine gaskets set
• fuel pump
• low profile floor jack

Actually the oil leak I saw on the side of the block it has oil there that why I'm replacing the valve cover gasket and since it was cheap enough might as well do all the engine gaskets; after the pump is in and injectors are cleaned if it doesn't start I will move onto the distributor.



Now not only I'm waiting for parts but I live in Venezuela and the situation here is dire and covid didn't make things easier; there's a gas shortage so the black market gas is around 2$ to 3$ a liter so a gallon is around 7$ to 8$ which even thought I have the parts coming the gas situation put a wrench on the testing phase.


I absolutely love the color, I'm hoping that after the repairs are done it will look good with some detailing, as for the windshield I need the lock-down to be over so i can go pick one up at a junkyard

[cth350]

If you have access to spares at a yard, then you'll have a shopping list soon enough. Some of the djet parts will not be replaceable locally or overseas. Worry about that when the time comes. Let us know how the tank cleaning goes.

-CTH

[rbtoj]

If I were you I'd do the head gasket last.

Taking the head off of an M110 involves a few extra steps than most other engines. If you are going to do it you have to choose between a)breaking the timing chain open and buying another or b)taking the radiator out in order to remove the timing chain idler pulleys so you can re use the timing chain.

There are many versions of the M110 out there, so when you order something make sure it's the right one for you by checking the chassis number AND the engine number. The engine number is stamped on the block next to the distributor.

Like you I'm in South America (Brazil) and most of the old Mercedes here are euro models, which means sometimes you wont find parts in US stores.

I also had fuel issues with my M110 but it is a different injection system to yours (K-jetronic instead of D-jetronic). Make sure you search around the forums, there is plenty of good info here and if you can't find what you are looking for, just ask.

Good luck!