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  #1  
Old 09-16-2002, 11:26 AM
jobber
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Sagging Front Springs on 108?

The front end of my 280SE 108 is riding low. I have seen others with this look but mine is particularly bad, maybe 2" low. I have some advice this is a spring problem. I have had plenty of old cars but never had problems with sagging springs. Is this a typical fault with these cars or is it something else.

I have checked the manual for this car and there seems to be a system for determining different springs for different models with different options. Anyone understand this. Also there is a rubber mount at the top of the spring that a lot of dimensions are given for. My brain is not engaged and I am looking for a Readers digest explanation of all this. Also any other explanations for low front ride height.

If it matters mine is a 72 model with the 3.5, aircon and power steering.

Thanks
John

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  #2  
Old 09-16-2002, 07:58 PM
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Location: Evansville, Indiana
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John:

See the excellect DIY article in the DIY section by Mike Tangas. You have bad front subframe mounts. I've bought them for mine, but haven't gotten them in yet.

Dollar to a doughnut, you also have bad engine mounts, too.

You may have some spring sag, but I would change the subframe mounts first -- easy way to check is to look at the oval hole in the fender in front of the brake booster -- the bolt in the metal plate should be at least an inch down below the four bolts around it -- if it is any higher, the rubber is gone.

Peter
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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #3  
Old 09-17-2002, 06:58 AM
the-nasher
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Could it be that the springs from a 2.8 have been fitted to your 3.5?
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  #4  
Old 09-17-2002, 09:57 AM
jobber
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Both are possibilities. I have been planning to change the front subframe mounts so will try and do that this weekend. I have been told this will not give me much of a lift but definetly the first thing to do. Thanks to psfred for the tip on the engine mounts, did you do the rear mount as well?

Regards
Increasingly obsessed 108 owner
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  #5  
Old 09-17-2002, 11:17 AM
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Posts: 373
From what I remember from my days on the Ritter/Easley MB e-mail list, Stu Ritter (technical editor for the Star Magazine) said he only saw 4 cases in his 35 years of working on MB's where spring-sag was the issue when a car didn't sit level.

With his experience on thousands of different MB's, I'd be comfortable betting it's mounts. Any car over 10-12 years old likely needs alot of that chassis rubber replaced, a W108 even moreso

Regards,
- Ryan:
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  #6  
Old 09-17-2002, 11:21 AM
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There is a good chance you will need springs. When the 108s came with 6 cyls, springs weren't a problem. When they dropped that big hunk of iron in there they call a V8, the springs were asked to carry a heavy load. As I stated in another post another problem caused by the V8 was a leaking steering box. The exhaust is right next to the box and the heat damages the seals.

Peter
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  #7  
Old 09-17-2002, 07:39 PM
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Jobber:

Yes, I also replaced the tranny mount -- far easier than the others, don't even need to jack the car up (you do need to support the tranny while changing the mount.

You will probably have to jack the engine up somewhat to get to the top bolts out of the old engine mounts -- 19 mm wrench. 6 mm allen screws hold the mounts to the frame, easy to reach when the heat shields are off. Will make a BIG difference on where the engine sits, make sure the fan shroud is loose before you start.

You will also need new engine shocks if the mounts are very squashed -- the ones from the W107 fit if you file the holes in the steel caps out a bit (shaft on new shocks is a bit larger) and you will need an extra rubber buffer since the top shaft is longer, but the cost less than half as much as the actual replacements, if you can get them. One of mine was bent and stuck, the other empty and useless.

Bad subframe bushings will lower the body about an inch and a half.

No difference in weight between the M116 and M117 engines, I think the only difference is that the M116 is a "stroker" -- shorter crank throws, longer rods.

Peter
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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #8  
Old 09-17-2002, 10:42 PM
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John,

To answer your question if you replace springs,you need to order the springs that match your application. Once the springs arrive, you need to look at the markings on the springs which are paint stripes. You need to m,atch the paint stripes with a pad with the appropriate amount of burrows which are measured in milimeters. I know this is confusing, but if you get to that point I'll look up all the data for you. I have the microfiche for all countries. Good luck.

Peter
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  #9  
Old 09-28-2002, 10:41 AM
jobber
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I got around to changing the front sub frame mounts today. I read the DIY piece first and its pretty spot on. Although I didn't disconnect the brake lines or loosen the fan shroud. You do stand a chance of stretching the brake lines if you are not carefull so its a risk.

One of the mounts was in two pieces so well worth doing but it doesnt seem to have solved my ride height problem. The front is a little higher but still the car has an obvious rake. This bugs me because I think it makes the car look shonky. So it looks like I need to change the springs.

Q: I noticed the springs have the paint markings, mine have red and green, does that mean anything to you Autozen and do I need to buy new pads for the top of the spring?
also
Q: In the manual there is a bad picture of a special fixture used to support the lower control arm when dropping the spring. Does anyone have a better picture of this device or Know if I could make one or do I need it?

Regards
John
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  #10  
Old 09-28-2002, 11:16 AM
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John:

Rear height is adjustable, too -- the lower spring cups can be rotated to change ride height and adjust rear camber. Should be slightly negative (in at the top) with car level and unloaded.

My 280 is a bit high in the back, but I've not replace the subframe mounts yet. Next weekend, maybe....

If the rubber for the springs is shot or missing, that will also lower the front some.

Peter
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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #11  
Old 09-29-2002, 10:58 AM
jobber
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I've been thinking the rear ride height may be contributing to the problem. My rear wheels lean out at the top, but most of the 108's I have seen do the same thing. If they are meant to lean in at the top I could have to look into it.

Is there any data out there on mesuring ride height or correct suspension geometry. Also I have a plain steel coil compensating spring on the rear when I have seen a wierd bullet shaped thing in photos of other rear ends. What is that, should I have one?

Regards
John
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  #12  
Old 09-29-2002, 12:20 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
John:

The coil spring over the diff is the "sway bar", other wise known as the compesating spring. The bullet shaped thing is a hydro-pneumatic self leveling compesator, and you don't want one -- they wear out pretty fast and cost $1700 each! They do give you self leveling in the rear, but at that cost I'd settle for rear end squat under full load. I've no intentions of taking my gas hog on long trips fully loaded anyway!

All the pictures I've seen of the 280 seem to show a slight inward tilt to the rear wheels. I guess this is normal -- just enough to see that they aren't vertical. Probably to compensate for the opposite once you get them loaded up with people and stuff.

My front end is still a bit low -- but I expect that to go away with the new subframe mounts. If you still have the front bumper lower than the rear by a substantial amount (sitting on level ground) and have good shocks front and rear, you must have spring sag.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #13  
Old 10-03-2002, 01:10 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Northern Calif. (Fairfield Area)
Posts: 2,225
John,

Sorry for the late response, but I've had other things going on. The system of matching springs and pads is very complicated for MBs of this era. I'm sure things will be much simpler in the future because of the Detroit influence. You'll just slap on a set of fit all springs and that will be the end of it. Getting back to your ride, green is not an option. If you look at the springs carefully, you will see 3 white stripes or 3 red stripes or 3 blue stripes. I then need the first 6 #s of the chassis. 108.???. I need to know how many of the 4 following options you have:sliding roof,power steering, A/C, automatic trans. With these 3 pieces of info I can look up the MB part # for the correct rubber pads in the technical data manual.

Peter

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