Seat interchange

Quick question to the experts here. :-) I have ran across a very nice set of med blue leather trimmed seats in a 77 280 and need to know if these would be a bolt-in swap into a 74 450SE front and rear.

The seats in the project I'm working on have pretty much disintegrated while sitting 20+ years and these look the same but I want to make sure before I buy them.

Thanks,

Justin B

[psfred]

Justin:

Any seats from a W116 chassis will be completely interchangeable. New covers are available from several sources, and you can always do what I'd doing, make a set. Easy to remove and install. New leather will set you back about $2700 from Adsit.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for the info, I was hoping that seats would interchange between various models of the same basic body style. I located a set of medium blue front and rear seats in a 77 280 that look practically new. The only problem I see is the passenger's seat reclining mechanism (or maybe seat frame) might be tweaked as it is leaning to the right about 10 degrees but it is solid so nothing appears to be broken.

They have sort of a small "waffle" pattern insert with leather trim. I think they will go very nicely with the blue interior in the 74 SE. I'm heading to the wrecking yard Saturday morning to yank them out. Hopefully if there is a bent seat frame on the passenger's side I can pull parts prom the old seats to repair. Anyway, I figure at $50 I can't go wrong.

The seats in my SE are fabric and the foam and upholstery in general has pretty much decomposed from sitting for the past two decades. I had thought about reupholstering the original seats but they are, in my opinion, not worth salvaging.

Maybe if I get it to where it doesn't look so ratty I won't threaten it with the boneyard as often!

Justin

[Clunker]

Is the 1977 an S class? If not, it is not a 116 and probably a 123. I don't know if 123 seats are interchangable.

I think it said 280SE or 280SD but I'll double check before I get them.

[psfred]

Justin:

Here's the drill on changing the covers, since it sounds like someone VERY heavy sat in one of the seats and either bent or broke the frame.

Remove seat. Pull side trim (this varies -- on my W108 there are chromed side covers that clip on, on the W115 there is a plastic cover that snaps into a hole -- I think the W116 is similar to the W108) and remove the seatback tilt knob. It may pull off like the W115, or you may have to carefully pry out the center cover and unbolt like the W108 -- the seam is right inside the outside diameter, the center just pops out with some help with a small screwdiver.

From there, figure out what holds the backrest to the bottom cushiom --- two bolts in the W115, four cross head screws (large) on the W108. I had to use a pair of vise grips on the screwdriver to get the screws out, they werew stuck.

Once separated, flip the bottom cushion over and compress the springs. I had to lie down on the base. Pry the edge of the lower apron up and out of the slot -- there is a strip of tack strip sewn to the cover, then folded over and slipped into the slot. A phillips screwdriver will help to get the tack strip out of the slot, the cover is usually stuck there.

Once you get the tack strip out all the way round, you will need to get a pair of needle nose pliers and unbend the wire clips that hold the listing to the bottom of the pad. You will see the wires. Once these are all out, peel the listing back and pull the psrings and pad off the cover. Be carefull not to pull too hard on the seams at the corners coming off -- if it sticks, make sure all the wires are out!

Backrest cover is a little different. Remove the screw at the base of the rear panel and the headrest -- there is a hole in the back panel (covered by the fabric or leather) that hides a spring loaded button. Pull the headreast all the way up, then push the button through the cover to release the headrest. Pull the back panel up in the center to release it from the side slots. If the cover will come free at the sides, pull the sides loose and peel them back. Usually too stuck, so just bow the back cover and pull it down and out. Once that is off, compress the backrest and unhook the sides, then the "tail" at the bottom and reach up where the rear cover went and pull the large tack strip down to release the top. Pull cover off towards the top after sliding it over the bottom edge. No wire rings on the backrest.

To install the backrest cover, just reverse the steps, except put the rear cover on before hooking the sides in, it isn't possible to slide the rear cover into place. Make sure the upper rear edge folds under and fits in the clips properly, or the rear cover won't go all the way in.

The seat bottom cover needs to be sewn down -- if you can find a curved upholstery needle it is much easier. Fit spring and pad assembly onto the cover, fold listing back into place, then sew it down with cotton crochet string. Best to run the stitches around the outer spring frame where the wires were. You only need a stitch for each wire, more or less. This keeps the cover from scrubbing on the pad.

Once sewn down, compress the springs and re-install the tack strips in the slot. Work from the center of the front back on each side, its easier.

Re-assemble seat and re-install in car.

If the base doesn't slide well, clean and lightly grease the rails, or better yet, put so graphite on rather than grease.

Easiest automotive seat covers I've ever heard of!

Peter

Sounds pretty easy, hopefully nothing is broken. I shook and yanked the seat back around pretty good and it felt solid but I guess I'll find out Saturday when I get them pulled.

Thanks for the hints and advice,

Justin

You should try and get a look at the seats pads as well before you buy, although at $50 its worth it just for the covers. The compressed fibre pads often disintegrate and an orangey brown fibre dust under the back seat is a sign they are going. These are expensive to buy and impossible to repair if really gone.
Also the wire loops holding the listing wires on the pad are called hog rings. You usually just cut these off and fit new ones. You can buy hog ring pliers and hog rings at big hardware stores look in the wire fencing section.

John

Went to "the yard" today to pull the seats and noticed the car was a 240D, I started getting depressed.

I got the seats pulled and found a 74 450SE that wasn't loaded up with junk and pulled the ratty back seats out of it and the 240D seats were a hair narrow and generally wouldn't fit. I got more depressed...

Could not get at the front seats in the old 450 (piled full of crap) but was able to get at a 380SE so set the driver's seat in and it looked like the mount holes would line up but there was a large hump in the floor pan under the driver's seat so the seat wouldn't set in place. Now I am really depressed.

I went back and looked at the loaded down 74 450 and the floor appears to be flat under it. Almost started feeling better.

I guess all was not for naught, I found a couple dollars worth of change and a wadded up $10 bill under the 240D rear seat!!

Will these 77 240D front seats fit in my 74 450SE?

Thanks in advance.

Justin B.

[psfred]

Justin:

No, they won't fit, too narrow. The holes in the floorpan are different.

Do you need pads or just covers? There was a set of blue leather seats in a W116 at the local yard, but I've not been in for a while, don't know if they are still there. I can check, but I'm sure you don't want to ship seats any distance.....

John:

the clips are NOT hog rings -- they are much lighter, and are semicircular, about 1" in diameter. They go part way round the front rail of the springs, but not completely, and go through the horsehair pad. Hog ring pliers won't work, the ends don't touch. The MB manual says to sew the listing back on with heavy string. Probably a "special" tool used at the factory, probably looks a lot like hog ring pliers, but isn't.

Peter

Peter.

I just got back from the yard and bought the front seats, I think if they don't fit they'll be close enough to where I can "make" them fit! ;-) I sat the front driver's seats into a 78 380SE and, other than the hump in the floor, the bolt holes either would line up or be real close.

The rears were about 3" too narrow. It's too bad as they were absolutely perfect as well. So, they let me have the two front seats for $40, didn't sound like too bad a deal even if I have to get the welder out and modify some brackets.

I'll carry these to the 450 next weekend and see how lucky I got.

The seats in the 450 are pretty much toast, all of the foam/padding has rotted and the back seat just looks like the cover is laid out over bare springs. I'll take it apart and see if I can carve down a block of foam and make new cushions once I get the injection/ignition issues sorted out.

Justin B.

[psfred]

Justin:

I replaced the pad on the rear seat in my brother's car (W115.114) with a 3/8 sleeping bad mat and an eggcrate sleeping bag mat from K-Mart. The ones at WlaMart are thinner and cheaper (although they cost the same....)

Cut the thin mat to fit the spring top, then cut the eggcrate mat to fit at the rear but overlap about 3 or 4 inches on the front -- use the cover to figure out exactly. You will need to folt the front edge over and sew it down through some thin cardboard so that the front edge will be at the front of the cover -- the horsehair pad is about an inch and a half longer than the springs. I used heavy cotton chrochet thread and a "picking out" needle from the craft store -- an upholstery needle, curved or straight, would probably work better. This is a pain, but upholstery foam will not be firm enough to make the "lip" on the front edge.

Backrests won't really be doable, alas -- the back seat, maybe, the fronts no way. The shape of the upper part is formed by the pad, and I don't know of any way to duplicate the shape by hand.

I will take a look this week if I get a chance -- the seats at the yard were dark blue (MB262) MB tex, I think, a few minor tears, but the pads were fine. If they are still there, I will price them, I can always ship you the pads and covers,

Peter

Well, the 77 240D leather seats look great in the 74 450SE. Although the tracks/mounts didn't fit perfectly they were easily adaptable.

All I had to do was peel back the carpet piece pver the front mount holes, move the clip/j-nuts from the rearward slot forward a couple inches to the front slot, and finally drill a new hole in the track about an inch back from the front hole. After this they bolted right in and work great!

Justin B.