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  #1  
Old 07-30-2003, 09:13 PM
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1967 230s idle problem

getting tired of shifting into "drive" and giving gas at the same time so the motor dont stall....the idle seems to drop to much when in gear compared to idling in park...there must be some kind of compensation for this but i only have a " haynes " manual and as we know they arent even good for starting a campfire.!..
the car only has 100k mi on it and i am the second owner so the car hasnt been messed with to much..so if somebody could explain what is and how what is supposed to happen when shifting into gear to keep idle up i could work on it..thank you ..
PS: changed the starter last week and was ready to cut a hole in the floor board to get at the top starter bolt,,when i pulled back the carpet i found MB had already done that.." haynes" didnt say anything about it,,,left me frustrated for hours...

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  #2  
Old 07-30-2003, 10:54 PM
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I'd be thinkin air leak at carburetors..... What happens when you nail the accelerator, say at 40 mph?
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Old 07-31-2003, 06:40 AM
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when driving along at any speed and hit gas hard without a problem it takes rite off well..at 40 mph it will downshift and turn the rear tires over like a hotrod..
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  #4  
Old 07-31-2003, 07:01 PM
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And idle speed has been set with car in drive and emergency brake on?

Gotta get dwell/tach guage to measure the difference in rpm's between Neutral and Drive.... say, if neutral idle is at low 850 - it might be droppin to 650 in drive.

Otherwise, it could be something as simple as dirty, clogged air filter or fuel filters (inline primary filter between fuel pump and carbs or secondary internal filter screens in zenith carbs) dragging the engine down at idle speed under load....... unnoticeable at speed.

The only other carb related culprits i can think of are acceleration pumps and electric choke, but none of what you said makes me think its one of these.
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Old 08-01-2003, 06:55 AM
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thank you again...i didnt know to set idle with car in gear and brake on,,will try that but it "seems" like when in nuetral idle may be to high,,will give it a try tho..
air filter is new but fuel filters are old,they should be changed anyway,will do that to over weekend and let you know what happens....
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Old 03-21-2004, 10:29 PM
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did you ever solve this problem?

I have the same problem.. if I set it in D the idle goes too high in Neutral...

If I set it the other way, then it drops to below 600 and almost dies...
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Old 03-21-2004, 10:59 PM
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Is Jaime's zenith carb page still out there? There is a dashpot on the rear carb that is supposed to be activiated as a side-effect of going into gear.

If your only runtime problem is an initial low idle point in gear, it could be that. But if you have any other symptoms of hesitancy or fuel consumption, dig deeper.

The correct procedure for setting idle, is first get the timing at 4,500 RPM, and then setting the engine to idle at 800rpm. Make sure the carbs are balanced.

-CTH
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Old 03-21-2004, 11:08 PM
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I have webers.... no dashpot...

I know that it's only supposed to drop 150 rpm or so.. it drops about 500 rpm when put in gear...
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Old 03-22-2004, 01:36 AM
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Wait a minute - we've spent alot of time linkin this problem to carburetion...... Now am thinkin: What about timing chain stretch of 10 degrees or worse that robs performance under load.

We can roughly guage timing chain stretch by setting the engine at TDC then comparing difference between TDC mark on the crank pulley with TDC mark on the forward camshaft stantion. They should line up exactly without even 1/8" difference.

How many miles on that 6 cyl Heckflosse 110 thats been souped up with Webers...... has the original timing chain racked up anywhere near 150k over the past 38 yrs?? Thats nothin for the short block, but valve gear and timing chain can need work each 120-150k miles or so.

Last edited by 300SDog; 03-22-2004 at 01:45 AM.
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  #10  
Old 03-22-2004, 08:01 AM
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I just put a new timing chain on it today... Took like 20 minutes...

However,

It is about 4 degs off.. i need to order one of those offset keys...

It would be nice to know where the offset key goes? My books don't show where or how...

thanks
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Old 03-22-2004, 08:05 AM
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You remove the sprocket on the cam. Under it is the woodruff key. Take out the old, put in the new. -CTH
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Old 03-22-2004, 08:39 AM
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I'll order that today...

Here is another question about all that... In order to take the sprocket off and the chain.... is there a simple method.. When I put the new chain on, i just fed it through and put in the repair link...

Do I need to

1. drain radiator
2. pull of tension adjuster
3. pull off sprocket
4. put on key
5. put all back on

or can I leave the tension adjuster alone?

thanks!

Brian
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  #13  
Old 03-23-2004, 03:11 AM
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When i pulled the sprockets off my twicam 280 to replace the cams and cam carrier, I paintmarked the chain to sprocket teeth and then just gently tapped the sprockets off with rubber hammer...... it was awhile ago, but i dont remember draining the radiator or messing with the tensioner at all. Also used wire and bungie cord to keep tension on the chain. I think they used two kinds of chain tensioners.... mine could have been the later hydraulic type.

If you've just installed a new chain with master link, path of least resistance might be to rotate the engine until the link pops up... then disconnect it and reconnect it after putting in the off-set woodruff key.
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  #14  
Old 03-23-2004, 02:17 PM
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The only 280 cam replacement I've done was on a '76 model. That one had a tensioner with a built in ratchet, that was impossible to compress. I had to remove and dissassemble the tensioner assembly, pull out the inner plunger from the front (chain side) of the tensioner housing and re-insert it through the rear of the housing.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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  #15  
Old 03-23-2004, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by cth350
You remove the sprocket on the cam. Under it is the woodruff key. Take out the old, put in the new. -CTH
If only it were that easy...

Well, if you have advice on HOW to remove the old one, I'm all ears. Mine didn't budge, (all 3) felt like they were welded in...

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