W 138 - 260 Diesel - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

95300YDT-A · #1 02-01-2004, 03:58 PM

Mostly I am sticking to the Diesel and Tech Help forums but browsing on this one gave me an idee.
My mechanic has already a W 136 - 170D (1953) in topshape. Recently he acquired a W 142 or W153 - 230 from 1939 with a lot of bodywork but with everything original except the head gasket.
Now we got an offer to buy a W 138 in very bad shape. But it's a Diesel and some of you know certainly this was the first Diesel powered passengercar of Mercedes.
Doing a lot of searching on the net about these cars I started realising the 230 is rather rare. Only 4000 of them were build before WW 2 interrupted the production. So finding information was difficult. But of the 260 D"s only 2000 were build.
Now my question to the forum is : someone who knows where to get serious information, tips, addresses and so on, please let me know. If we buy the 260D than we will probabely sell the 230 to pay for the first bills of the restauration. My friend and I are only interested in Diesels so we don't mind to much.
We are still not shure about this as there are missing some important body parts. That's why I am trying to find out if it would be doable. I strongly believe this Diesel is worth it as a very rare vintage car.
As I coudn't find anything on the net, I really hope this forum will
come up with something usefull!
Thanks in advance!

Danny

300SDog · #2 02-01-2004, 10:49 PM

In defense of gasoline engine technology..... I've gotta say its impressive that folks here are talking about supercharging their 4.5's and one forum member out West has a stone-stock 6.3 from 1970's "the silver bullet" that consistently beats the modern MB yr 2000 comparable top-of-the-line V-8 model in the quarter mile.

Meanwhile, just how roadworthy are those primitive old world diesels under modern predatory highway conditions? Am wondering if they rival 3 cyl "smart cars" for horsepower and top-end speed....... yet hauling three times the bulk and weight making the 170D comparable to using farm tractor for dailly commute. Practically everybody here drives their vintage/antique Benz everyday..... Is this possible with one of those crazy old diesels??

And to answer your inquiry..... if you havent found them already - here are excellent sites for Pontoons and Haekflossen. Maybe if you contact the webmaster/owner of each, then you can hook up with comparable post-war Benz source online.....

http://www.mbzponton.org/
http://www.heckflosse.nl/

Another question - Is it Grosser body style that houses the 260 and 230 engines you are talkin about?? ......if so, then searching "grosser" might produce the information you seek.

95300YDT-A · #3 02-02-2004, 08:36 AM

Dieseldog,

That is just the problem. This thread is not about competition with "modern" cars but about restauring an old Diesel. I am NOT talking about a post war car. The W138 - 260 Diesel is a PRE - war car, victim of the WW 2 too. Without this war, you would still see plenty of these cars everywhere around the world as is the case with the W136 - 170. That car re-established the reputation of Mercedes and - Diesel powered - passengercars in the entire world.
BUT the first and only number one was the 260D, let's not forget that.
Certainly not by the MB's enthousiasts!

Danny

95300YDT-A · #4 02-02-2004, 08:39 AM

Dieseldog,

This is a P.S.
The websites you mensioned are even not mensioning the W138.
That is why I started this thread!

Danny

95300YDT-A · #5 02-02-2004, 08:50 AM

Dieseldog,

This is an other P.P.S.
The "grosser" Benzes are an entirely other species of cars. The 230 ( W143 or W153 with long or short "chassis") and the W138 - 260 Diesel were totaly
different cars. Both are almost never mensioned on lists about "W" numbers.
That should give you something to think about...

Danny

300SDog · #6 02-02-2004, 07:35 PM

As I've said, direct contact with webmaster/owner of excellent sites I've listed *might* steer you in the right direction.

This is truly the "lost generation" Mercedes with which you are working. There could be fewer than 1000 examples in existance.

Am guessing you've run into political problems along the way. Did you know that MBDAG made enitirely unpublicized reparations (costing million$$$) to survivors and 1st generation descendants of forced labor camps back in the early 1980s when archive/records were released?? No doubt the car company itself will provide no help for your restoration project.

Vintage automobiles capture the times and era of their creation unlike anything else. You've got to understand this; there will be great resistance across the Continent of Europe to your endeavors at restoring ultimate German automobile from say, 1939.

Yes, thanks for pegging the "w" chassis designation..... this is an interesting bit of lore. Tell us about the specs - flathead, sidevalve(?) engine, 6 volt electrics, top speed, etc....... better yet attach some pictures!!!

Meanwhile restoration of primitive 1930s car should not be any different from restoring any other. Keep us informed of your progress and you will make friends.

(soto vocce) I've heard that body shell of SS Heidrick's smaller sized sedan, in which he got clobbered by patriots, has been recovered in the Balkans. This may be the same type car you are working with, i dunno. But if you can find the museum that houses this historically important relic or links online, then maybe you can indirectly find others who are restoring similar cars.

If it was me, I'd also keep logbook/journal of the entire project.... listing contacts, locations of similar cars, parts sources and machine shops. For example, 2 similar WWII cars recently turned up in Texas on USA ebay....... brought back by returning soldiers from Germany and now being sold by their middle aged children.

95300YDT-A · #7 02-03-2004, 05:19 AM

Dieseldog,

Thanks for your replie. But a have bad news : the owner of the 260D has sold the car to someone other. In fact this buyer promissed to mail a check to the owner. The owner promissed me if the deal would get off, to contact me again. Dealing is a bit difficult because my friend is only speaking Dutch and German ( he is a fine independant Mercedes mechanic for 30 years now ), quiet normal for a Belgian. The owner is only speaking French, quiet normal for a Frenchman, and my role is the inbetween as a translator.
The car is 1.000 kms away from us and the owner has no email or website.
So you understand the difficulties and the delay caused by all this.
We are feeling very sad now, believe me !
After all, it is a very rare car.
Resistance of the people against the restauration of a prewar German car : we don't fear. It's non existing anymore. Most Europeans drive German cars these days.
No, the only real problem we fear is finding missing parts.
Not only were there the low production numbers - Germany's industry was allready turning entirely for war production, after the war everything was destroyed. So our only hope is to receive at least technical information of the factory. And indeed : Mercedes-Benz Classic is very well organised and helpfull. I have done a "revision" ( NOT airworthy but visual!) of a Daimler-Benz aircraft engine dating from WW I ! After that I got an invitation to their factory and the Mercedes-Benz Museum. Quiet an experience to and only 200 miles from here.
If we would be so fortunate to buy the car, you"ll be the first to now.
Pictures of the other cars mensioned before, I will mail them in the other thread on this forum asking for pictures.
Thanks again.

Danny