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  #16  
Old 11-01-2004, 11:28 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Flyover State
Posts: 1,363
$669 later

I broke down and rented the Klann compressor from performance products. While awaiting its arrival, what is everyones opinion of the ball joint replacement kit for the upper control arm? Drilling out the old riveted one and replacing with bolted on b-joint, is it going to be bulletproof? I'm not opposed to buying new Upper CA's, they are low hundreds a piece.

I'll need to get everything that needs to be done while the compressors are here (21 days). What else:

Rubber spring pads
Lower ball joints and lower bushings
Upper c arm bushings (included with new arms)

Thanks!


Brian, I don't have a lot of fluid loss in the steering system. It has been topped up with power steering fluid plus stopleak. Box needs to come off to replace the coupler I believe, so might as well reseal it. Don't know if I'll rebuild it if the play can be adjusted on the bench.
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63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6
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  #17  
Old 11-02-2004, 12:32 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 329
I was hoping somebody on this thread could tell us if the box has to come off or if I can get enough play by moving the steering wheel up?
A quick look at the parts picture gave me the impression I needed aprox 3-4 inches of slack.
If I attack it first I will try to get pictures but a little advice first might save a lot of time later.

Also, I thought I just saw a "still in the box" spring compressor for sale in the parts forum.
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1968 Torino GT fastback
1969 Ranchero
1970 Duetz Tractor Air-cooled diesel-rearend needed 4005 or 6
1974 240d 4-speed
1976 240d fresh paint
1978 300cd fresh paint and new rearwindshield rubber
1980 240d 4-speed-sold
1981 300d
1990 6.2 Suburban 194k-getting a 6.5 turbo
2002 Grasshopper Mower diesel
2008 Duramax Silverado
2015 VW Passat TDI
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  #18  
Old 11-02-2004, 12:36 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 329
I don''t know if it will work but try
FS: Mercedes Tools, Klann, Snap-on
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Ncnetman
1968 Torino GT fastback
1969 Ranchero
1970 Duetz Tractor Air-cooled diesel-rearend needed 4005 or 6
1974 240d 4-speed
1976 240d fresh paint
1978 300cd fresh paint and new rearwindshield rubber
1980 240d 4-speed-sold
1981 300d
1990 6.2 Suburban 194k-getting a 6.5 turbo
2002 Grasshopper Mower diesel
2008 Duramax Silverado
2015 VW Passat TDI
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  #19  
Old 11-02-2004, 01:32 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
If a new ball joint is available, bolting it in will work just fine. No need to buy new control arms just to get a ball joint.

Peter
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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #20  
Old 11-02-2004, 09:50 AM
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I'll Go Upside Your Head!
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 3,378
The steering box doesn't have to come completely out, just unbolt it then move it forward. The linkage, etc. keep it from going anywhere. That is what was required on my w116. I did it on a lift though, so it was easier. However, I wasn't very accurate with my marking so now I drive the car with the wheel quite a bit to the left. Those are small splines, so you should probably spray inside the gap onto the shaft so the new one will line up when you can't see any of the uncolored shaft. I tried a permanent marker, didn't work well. So now I have to take it all of again and try to move it over 1-2 teeth. Does being off one tooth make much of a difference regarding steering wheel alignment?
Thanks
David
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  #21  
Old 11-03-2004, 06:58 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Flyover State
Posts: 1,363
Thumbs up Progress report

Sure it comes apart easier, but everything has gone really well so far. Have removed front: calipers, discs, steering knuckle arms, brake master cylinder, tie-rods, steering damper and intermediate arm. I have also removed the booster to facilitate access to the steering box and cleanup of the accumulated muck in the fender corner. The booster removal was the toughest so far with restriced access to firewall bolts. There was about a pint of really nasty brake fluid suspended in the booster bottom.
Wish I had my digi-cam with me so I could post some pics for everyone, it is on loan.
The spring compressor arrived today too, but I think I will wait until next week to tackle that. My Saturday plans changed.

Of course, the toughest part is yet to come. I have yet to comprehend removing the steering box without losing steering center but will clean it up and stare at it for a while longer. I think it will be good to remove everything and reseal it, the left side of the front end is a smorgasborg of grease.

Thanks for the support everyone!
BTW psfred, Phil gave me a good deal on new upper control arms along with a bunch of other stuff.
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63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6
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  #22  
Old 11-03-2004, 07:55 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
Just mark the splined shaft on the box carefully, the steering column end is rectagular and you can only put it on correctly or 180 degrees off!

Brake fluid in the master cylinder means the rear (plunger rod ) seal on the master cylinder is shot and leaking fluid. Won't affect braking until it really gets bad and sucks all the fluid out of the master cylinder.

The "honor" of the first ever safety recall in America goes to Buick for this very problem -- no seal between the booster and the master cylinder, so if the plunger rod seal was iffy (and they all were on that 1950s Roadmaster -- I think that was the model), all the fluid vanshed down the intake leaving NO brakes at all since it had single master cylinder. When an auto mechanic lost both legs when someone was pulling one into the shop and the master cylinder was dry, crushing them between the Buick and another car, he sued because he'd reported the problem to Buick several times previously. Eventually the government agreed the Buick had deliberately sold the cars with known defect and refused to fix it, and made them add more sealing to prevent hard vac being applied to the rear of the master cylinder.

Not that it did diddly for the poor bastard now minus two legs, but it was a start!

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #23  
Old 11-11-2004, 10:41 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Flyover State
Posts: 1,363
Somewhat Urgent

No big deal but is there a trick to separate the guide joint (a.ka. steering knuckle?)from the upper and lower front ball joints?
The special tool is a threaded spreader that pushes the bolt heads on the two ball joints apart forcing them out of the guide joint. Don't have that. Is a pickle fork suitable?
The spring removal went really well, had to go in from the top though.
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63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6
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  #24  
Old 11-12-2004, 12:32 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 5,398
Pickle fork will damage the boot and joint you're separating, but if you're installing new ones, go for it!

Happy Motoring, Mark
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  #25  
Old 11-12-2004, 09:26 PM
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Location: Flyover State
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Got it apart. I had to burn the LCA bushings out with a propane torch, what a PITA otherwise. As far as cleaning the eyelets for the bushings, what is emery cloth? Is that like steel wool?
Also there is corrosion in the center of the eyelet. If you know what the bushings look like, there is a space in the center where the two meet. Rust formed in this area. Not that I'm going to buy new LCA's, but I may go so far as to pick out the rust and apply POR15 in the center.
__________________
63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6
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  #26  
Old 11-13-2004, 11:41 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
Emery cloth is cloth backed sandpaper, medium grit. I no longer remember what emery is, but any sandpaper will work fine.

I would certainly rustproof the lower control arm inside the bushings, even though the new ones will fit pretty tight. You will need to make a puller of some sort to get the new ones in and seated, though -- a vise will work if you have a large one, otherwise a hunk of all-thread and a couple nuts and washers works great. If you don't seat them completely, you will have a devil of a time getting them back on the frame, it's a tight fit -- BTDT.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #27  
Old 11-13-2004, 11:46 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Flyover State
Posts: 1,363
Thanks psfred.

I spent quite a while on those control arms today. Shelled out for a Dremel though which paid for itself right away in ease of rust removal in those eyelets. In fact I dremeled out the entire bushing surface to make ready for the POR. I didn't bore it out , just deburred everything and took the surface down to bare metal with a fine grit grinder. It was silky smooth in there and now the POR is on it. We'll see how it turns out tomorrow.

On another subject, while I have the spring compressor what do I need to do to the rear end? The spring pads on the front end were serviceable and I don't suppose they are shot on the rear. There is no torque steer so I don't think the trailing arm bushings need to be replaced. I will change the rear subframe bushings and shocks but don't need the Klann for that. Before I send it back, what do I need to get at?

Thanks!
__________________
63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6

Last edited by joshhol; 11-13-2004 at 11:54 PM.
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  #28  
Old 11-21-2004, 11:01 AM
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Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 329
Driver side sub frame bushings.

Got them on last night.
The drivers side subframe bushings showed a little wear and moved a fair amount with a prybar, the rear more than the front and more than the pass side.
I took the top bolts off the shock and the bolts out of the sub frame bushings and started easing the car up (I used a lift but a jack should work the same) I keep an eye on the motor and I turned the fan so it would have max clearance. As soon as the tire clears the floor by an inch stop and put a 2 x 4(6-8 whatever) on the top of the spring hump, using a long crowbar for leverage and a sturdy flat head screw driver, pop the old bushing out and slide the new one in, I started in the rear but I do not think it matters.
The kit I got from Phil did not have instructions and the repair manuals on cd suck so I had to guess where the parts went.
My kit had a new bolt, lock washer, big washer, rubber doughnut(these mount from underneath in the order listed), a small white plastic funnel looking thing, the main bushing, a nut plate and a clip for each mount (4 of each).
The only use I could see for the white plastic piece was on the bottom of the bushing, it seemed to fit there fairly well, there was nowhere else that made sense and there was none in the parts I removed. Anyway I slipped the plastic piece over the nipple on the bushing and with a very little prying got it started back in the hole with the cup or large alum hole on top, I did not worry about forcing it down in the hole just made sure it was lined up right and did not spray or grease it. I put the new nut plate in, flat side up and started the bolt with the washers and doughnut in the order listed.
Ditto for the front, no harder to do just make sure the nut plate goes in far enough, it seems to like to stop about a half inch short.
Let the car down while guiding the shock back into the hole and the weight of the car should press the bushings into the correct position.
Tighten subframe bolts, replace shock top bushing, washer, both nuts and finished.
From start to finish and without a manual or knowing what the heck we were doing aprox 60 mins. Extra parts, those little clips listed last above, anybody know what they are for?
The new bushings have very, very little movement and although the old front bushing looked good and I thought I was wasting my time changing it, there is alot of differance in the new ones. This would have been a great time to change shocks but I did not have them so they will get changed with the upper and lower control arm bushings and the subframe bushings on the pass. side.
I also changed the steering coupler last night but I will walk you through that pia process later.
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Ncnetman
1968 Torino GT fastback
1969 Ranchero
1970 Duetz Tractor Air-cooled diesel-rearend needed 4005 or 6
1974 240d 4-speed
1976 240d fresh paint
1978 300cd fresh paint and new rearwindshield rubber
1980 240d 4-speed-sold
1981 300d
1990 6.2 Suburban 194k-getting a 6.5 turbo
2002 Grasshopper Mower diesel
2008 Duramax Silverado
2015 VW Passat TDI
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  #29  
Old 11-21-2004, 01:32 PM
Regular User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Flyover State
Posts: 1,363
Thats why I don't like those CD's. I have hard copy.
From bottom to top:
Bolt (duh)
Stop plate
Buffer stop for spring rebound
Buffer stop for spring compression (the white plastic thingy)
Rubber mount
Fastening nut
Holder for fastening nut (I think mainly for assembly)

45 Nm for the subframe bolts.

I had a guy change my sub frame mounts not too long ago. I watched him air gun the piss out of the new ones tightening them down. I didn't know any better but was very uncomfortable. So, I'm changing them and using a torque wrench.

If you're doing any more front end work, hit me up with any questions. I just reinstalled the pass side axle half and will help you out with any issues the CD's don't cover.
__________________
63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6
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  #30  
Old 11-21-2004, 10:23 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 329
The only differance between my assembly and your list is I had a lock washer between the bolt and the stop plate and no holder for fastening nut, my fastening nut is on a plate that you can hold with a pair of needle nose pliers if you need to, mine slid in and dropped into place and the bolt started easily.

I am waiting on shocks then I am changing upper and lower control arm bushings- both sides, sub frame bushings- pass side and shocks.

While you are in your front end make sure you look at your steering coupling, mine was the swaged type being after 1972 and is completely shot, no rubber left at all. I can shake it in my hand and it sounds like a rattle snake.

Thanks for the offer, I've got the sub frame down pat and the control arm bushing are pretty clear but I might run into something else. If you see an extra paper manual somewhere please yell.

Thanks again,
Brian
Adding link to steering coupling thread w115 Steering coupling Finished
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Ncnetman
1968 Torino GT fastback
1969 Ranchero
1970 Duetz Tractor Air-cooled diesel-rearend needed 4005 or 6
1974 240d 4-speed
1976 240d fresh paint
1978 300cd fresh paint and new rearwindshield rubber
1980 240d 4-speed-sold
1981 300d
1990 6.2 Suburban 194k-getting a 6.5 turbo
2002 Grasshopper Mower diesel
2008 Duramax Silverado
2015 VW Passat TDI

Last edited by NC240D76; 11-22-2004 at 02:57 AM. Reason: Added link to other thread
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