I have, or should I say my 14 year old son has, a 1963 220b. We are trying to keep it running as it is a driver and he's not interested in restoring. I am looking for a parts car and know of a '62 190 for sale and have seen where other posters have swapped parts from 190's to 220's. Are parts interchangeable on these two?? I know the 220's are on a 111 chassis and the 190's are on a 110. Is there enough difference that I shouldn't do this?

Most of the parts that wear out: valve guides, timing chain, shift linkage, ball joints, kingpins, engine mounts, calipres, master cylinders, engine seals, water pump, heat system, etc are the sort of thing that most people replace with brand new or rebuilt parts.

Among 110's and 111's it's the interiors, dash board fiddly bits, glass, suspension parts and possibly the transmission that are interchangable. And unless the 110 parts car is a 1967 6-cyl model, none of the engine components will interchange at all.

What's the status on the '63 220?

How good a shape is that 190 in? Most body parts and glass, from the windsheild back, as well as interior and suspension parts should interchange. The 190 will have plastic interior trim, in place of the wood on your 220. And of course the front body, bumper and engine are different.

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

The 220 is in pretty good shape. We've replaced the front windshield and front and rear window seals. We've had the headliner replaced with vinyl which really made a difference in that "old car" smell. We've replaced the clutch master and slave cylinders, had the brakes redone, although we could use a good brake master cylinder. The shocks have been replaced with new Bilsteins and I'm currently in the process of switching out the rear end. The car has 85k miles on it and the engine compression is still very good. The rear end has started making alot of noise so I searched around Central Oregon and found a 220 parked out in the junipers and sagebrush that still had the rearend under it. The one in the car is a 3.90 and the one from the junker is a 4.05, or so the stamping in the housing indicates.

I'll try to add some photos here:

We'd like to keep this car on the road but it seems as if parts can be hard to come by. That's why I'm kind of looking for a good parts car simply to have spares on hand. I know it's a case by case basis but I hope that I get to the point where major breakdowns don't keep occuring.

Thanks for the feedback.

Was that 'junker' 220 an 'S'? My info says the 220Sb/SEb had the 4.05 rear, while the 'economy' 220b came with the 3.90. I'm in kind of the same boat with my '60 Fintail 220S. I just got a complete spare rear axle assembly and front crossmember with suspension and disc brake conversion for free, with one catch - I had to drive 80 miles to get it!
Stuff for these cars does turn up on Ebay (sometimes for bargain prices!) and I've been able to get mechanical parts locally and from Fastlane/PartShop at this Forum.

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

You know, I don't really know. The front end, engine and tranny were gone. It was a 220 automatic and the frame number was 110 and change. It was in really sad shape and about the only thing that wasn't dinged up was the trunk lid. I mean it was really out in the juniper. I have yet to hear back from my mech as to what shape the rear end I pulled out was in. It's an amazing story with pics and a schizophrenic owner to boot. I should write a book, no one would believe it.

Then the real question is what's the gear ratio on the 190c and does it have the same tracking width as the 220b?

And the mystery deepens!
One of my references lists a 4.10 rear axle ratio for all automatic 220 Fintails. but all the Fintail 220 cars were 111 chassis. The 110 chassis were all 4 cylinder 190 and 200 Fintails, except for the short-nose 6 cylinder 230 built from '66 to '68. After '65, the rear end ratio is listed as a 4.08.
In any case, all the 110 and 111 Fintails used the same rear axle and the same track, so whatever model yours came out of, it should fit your 220b. With a change to a 4.05 (?) ratio, expect some speedometer error, with a bit better acceleration.

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

Click to view: Mark,

You're right!! I got curious to know if in my haste I had written down some wrong numbers. I did. Weird Bill, the schizophrenic with the junkers in the junipers, was "helping" me the day I went and got the rear end. I had come down with the flu the night before but felt that since this guy was so flaky I needed to follow through with the arrangement I had struck and so, sick as I was I went anyway.

He had two MB's parked out there. One was a 190 and after checking my notes that was the one with the 110 frame number. The 220 had a 111 frame number. (I'm a constant note taker, thank goodness.) Additionally, my shop manual says that the automatics had the 4.08 rear end so I more carefully cleaned off the rear end housing and it does indeed say 4.08, not 4.05 as I thought. In my haste to get away from Weird Bill I was a bit cursory in my looking at the numbers.

The reason I went looking for a rear end instead of repairing the one I have is that my mechanic said that it was very difficult to get the pinion bearing adjusted correctly and it would be better if we simply swapped rear ends. Is it that difficult to rebuild the rear ends? He also said that the correct tools to do that kind of work are almost non-existent anymore and he'd have to make his own if we elected to go that route. I took his word for it as I'm an "oil change" mechanic and he has done this for a living for probably 30 years.

I suspect my picture posting isn't working the way I would like so I'm going to try and post a different link. Someone let me know if it does or does not work. Click to view

Easy way to tell the 220b from the Sb or SEb is the rear bumper and taillights. Sb and SEb have large taillights wih extra chrome, chrome strips on the fins and double-decker rear bumpers.
220b has small taillights, no chrome fin strips and simple rear bumpers, like a 190c.
Your photo link is working now, though one needs to 'turn' a couple of pages to get the full-size image.
Black with red interior - my choice for my next Fintail and The Ultimate German Gangster Car!

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

German gangster car indeed!! My son already thinks he's in the Stasi. It's alot of fun to drive. Nice cornering, lots of driveing "action", quiet with the windows down, of course that may be because we're only going 45 at "top" speed. Great kids first car in that it doesn't go fast, is quite safe with the collaspable front end, and is cheap to insure.

I'm guessing the rear end was from a 220b then as the fins didn't have extra chrome along the tops and the tailights were the small ones. No double decker bumpers either.

Now I've got to get the VDO clock working. I don't know if it has power to it or not but it's about the only thing remaining that isn't up to working order. I see there's one on Ebay for sale but I haven't looked into mine yet.

Thanks for the reply on the link. I'm glad to know I can get it to work.

The original clock in my '60 Fintail was worn out but fortunately, I had scavenged one from a salvage yard 30 years ago, when my Dad had his Fintail. If you save something long enough, you'll find a use for it!
Those original VDO clocks are electrically self-winding. While yours could be worn out after 41 years, the clocks do have a fuse-link inside - actually a drop of solder connecting a spring contact to the winding solenoid. If your clock has never been opened, there's three tiny nuts securing the plastic rear cover. One of the nuts will have a round lead or plastic seal on it. If you're concerned about keeping it original, you may be able to gently pinch the seal and pop the cover off intact enough for re-use. Otherwise, just re-assemble without it. You'll need to move the clock's light bulb contact aside too. Once the cover is off, you can work the winding arm manually and wind the spring to see if the geartrain and balance wheel are working. Clock will run for about 2 - 3 minutes until the winding contacts close. If the clock's fuse-link is melted, you'll need to hold the spring contact in place while you re-solder it. then you can check the winding contacts for proper operation. Clock may need cleaning and light oiling too.

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

Hello,
Mark is right on the ball..those older VDO clocks are repairable, usually only the internal fuse is broken due to fatigue. A fine wire can be substituted for the fuse with the caveat that if the clock jams, it WILL overheat and catch on fire
I did throw away the VDO *quartz* clock in my 1976 W115 and got a mechanical clock out of 1970 W115 that works fine after the fuse *repair*, my *friendly* parts supplier wanted US$300 for a NOS W107/114/115 quartz clock
I told him he should not hold his breath waiting for me to buy it off him

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Nachi11744

pbaldner,
Is 45 the car's limit or yours? When they were new, the 220 had a top speed around 100. Right after I acquired my 220S, I went on the freeway and got her up to about 80. She seemed good for more but the scary part was dodging the tractor-trailers, without seatbelts!
Since then, I've fitted lap AND shoulder belts in the front seats and she has no problem keeping up 60 to 70 on her occasional jaunts on the interstate.

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

Mark,

45 was my speed prior to reworking the brakes. Still looking for a new brake master cylinder but I'm now comfortable driving it at highway speeds. It has front lap and shoulder belts and I'll need to add belts in the back. The motor is strong enough to push the car to it's top speed but I just haven't wanted to test the limits. Someday perhaps. I should be getting the different rear end in it soon which will make me much more confident when driving it. Need to get all the bugs worked out before my son starts driving it alot.

Phil