How would you rate a '65 220S for daily driving? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

WANT '71 280SEL · #1 11-29-2004, 07:05 PM

I have a couple questions...I am still looking at that 220S on ebay, and as it turns out, I just got an email from him, but it's a different person than emailed me on Sunday. The Sunday email was from teh guy in CA, and that's the one with the rust on the hood, so anyways...
Keep in mind, this will be my daily driver, but I'm still in H.S. so I have alternate transportation to school, work, etc.

1.)Traction, I've heard these are probably the best with the right tires, which is what I heard from Dieseldog if I'm correct. (snow, rain)

2.)Brakes, do you guys ever have any trouble stopping in emergency situations? Even though many such situations are avoidable by steering, acceleration...

3.)This car has A/C, when properly functioning, adequate with 75 ambient temp in trafiic?

4.)Heat...It does get below zero here, but not toooo often, could the car keep me warm enough to at least be able to hold the steering wheel with bare hands...(of course with engine warm, etc.) I do like the car ~warm~ in the winter, also, do these have rear window defrosters? (almost necessary since I can't park in a garage)

5.)Starting. IF the car is driven everyday, will this car have 20 second cranking episodes if set up correctly or is it one of those things that's impossible to get just right. I'd love to be able to go out and just start it in the cool mornings without killing the starter.

6.)Maintenance, I've found good sources for parts, but are these carbs easily rebuildable? I've heard conflicting opinions. What about getting the carbs to work right? Do dual carbs mean impossibility to get running right?

7.)Insurance, more expensive than say my '79 SD?

8.)Just for kicks, would you consider a 111 to be "funner" to drive. You people who drive MB's probably know what I mean when I say fun. I'm not an average driver, I love good handling.

As far as power's concerned, I've driven my brother's 190D 2.2, so I'm not usually in a big hurry, though I know this would be faster than his 2.2.

With all these questions, I'm assuming a well-maintained car because I fix things that are broken, which does get expensive, but keeps me out of trouble.

Thanks for any advice
David

P.S.
Here's a link to the auction, but if you're a spy wanting to outbid me, may God condemn you to hell!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4507995126

#2 11-29-2004, 07:50 PM

Not sure of the differences between your '65 220S and my '61 220SEb but here are my thoughts;

1; Traction on mine seems fine, I'm running on old style Michelin X tyres and I'm sure modern rubber would improve it even more but I've never felt the need and have yet to feel the back end step out of line, even in our British winters

2; My SEb has disc brakes front and are excellent! To be honest they're better than my '97 Mitsubishi and that has ABS!

3; No idea

4; I've used mine over last winter and it always started without a problem. The heaters and demisters seemed to work fine but I always kept a car cover on it over night so I didn't have to scrape the ice of the windows first thing. Rear demisters are an option but very easy to fit.

5; Not sure what you mean by 20 second starting. Mine always starts on first turn of the key, even if it's been standing for a few weeks. Mine has an electric pump and I turn on the ignition for about 30 seconds before starting.

6; If you don't have much luck with the carbs than I would try either getting rebuild kits or a replacing with the later Zeniths.

7; Again no idea.

8; I would say these cars are great fun to drive. They may not be fast by modern standards but I find the 111 chassis to have excellent road feed back and far more rewarding to drive than my previously owned 123s, 202s, 124s, 201s and 210s.

Benzcrusher · #3 11-29-2004, 09:57 PM

Go for it!

You may need to replace the heater valves, SOCal cars rarely have their heater levers and valves exercised...

That thin hard plastic steering wheel will be like ice on a cold morning.... Down right painful without gloves.....

The rear defrost was an option but quite rare, my '61 was prewired for one but did not come with the rear defroster option....

I've got an extra front and rear windshield on the cheap if one gets cracked....

300SDog · #4 11-29-2004, 10:08 PM

If you drive one every day then other cars will seem strange.... But if you mostly drive modern cars, then the finbody will seem weird.

Long time ago took an oath to myself that every old MB i ever owned would also be my daily driver. IMHO, its the best way to appreciate the characteristics of vintage automobiles..... get used to them and become accustomed to their features like push buttom radio channel selectors, hand-pull emergency brake, column shifter, barber shop pole speedometer, etc.

Some of the earlier models had skid plates underneath the sump. And brass tappets on the engine block and radiator bottom for draining and flushing the cooling system. You might also find wingnut housing with fuel filter element enclosed in a small glass jar. All of them have fine tuning distributor timing device to compensate for fuel octane ratings.

Early models with the flap for direct engine bay heating source have probably the best heating system that MB has ever built. And corner wing windows provide the finest air circulation that you can get.

Btw, you missed the most important distinction between the Finbody and other cars - the kingpin suspension ride!! 108 owners here will tell you how flimsy and feeble ball joint suspensions feel compared with the freight train ride that kingpins provide.

And that's no joke about Fintails being ass kickers in snow with 4 wheel snow tires. I had one in Boulder Colorado and used to plow my way out of 4' snow drifts and drove through more than a foot of snow with zero problems. It's got something to do with gear ratios in addition to a heavy axle and weight ballanced at all four corners.

joshhol · #5 11-29-2004, 10:25 PM

1. It's pretty dry out here in Cali but that thing hunkers down in the curves like a good benz should and takes the corner pretty well. It is a swing axle, put it still is 4 wheel independent suspension which was ahead of its time.

2. You will have dual circuit as opposed to my single which also makes a new master cylinder replacement about $300 cheaper. Brakes are great at first but on my car if I brake hard and then go to use them again shortly thereafter, the pedal travels really far and braking requires some pumping of the pedal. Master cylinder is new and booster has been rebuilt twice in as many years. It's been bled but I haven't tried replacing the hoses yet. . .(duh on me)

3. N/A

4. The heat is pretty weak in mine. However, the upper left slider is stuck about halfway. This is the airflow control so I think not as much air is able to flow as there should be. There is no window defroster on mine and often the side windows fog up. The output of the side vents is not enough to affect them. With the blower on though, the front window will clear up okay.

5. heckflosse has that fuel injection so sure its going to tick over right away . . .

Mine gets a little fussy if it hasn't been used in several days. It takes some coaxing but it usually isn't that bad. I have manual choke though. 65 would be auto. Gets down to about freezing out here occasionally. Another thing though is it runs poorly in the morning even warmed up. I think the inoperative heat risers in the intake have something to do with it, the carbs could be okay cause it runs fine in the afternoon. That cold air in the morning makes it stumble when the gas pedal is depressed. I'll have to make it a point to repair those heat risers even though most say to seal em shut. If they are lubricated regularly as the owners manual says to do, they should function properly, right?

6. My indie takes about 2 minutes to synch mine up. Doesn't seem to perplex him.

7. Your asking the wrong people.

8. I hate hitting a stoplight, it is an ordeal to get back up to speed. Once at speed, it rules. Don't know about more/less rewarding than a 124, that is a beautiful piece of work, a different animal.

The thing about the power may be okay where you live. I live in a hellhole of a-hole drivers who crawl up your *** all the time and are in such a hurry to get to the next stoplight. I've learned to totally ignore them though it took some time to get there. In a more subdued area, it should be fine. Once you get out of first gear, the pickup is acceptable.

joshhol · #6 11-29-2004, 10:35 PM

Dieseldog, I wish I could take mine up to the snow the way you describe it but I never will. I know some a**hole suv will slide into it.

The engine bay heat flap is supposed to be used when the cowl gets clogged with snow. (sucks you can't operate it from the inside) MB recommends closing it otherwise.
However, it's been getting down to 35 here in the morning and the fintail is scheduled for the commute tomorrow. I may have to give it a try.

WANT '71 280SEL · #7 11-29-2004, 10:40 PM

joshhol, I am speaking of a 220S, so it doesn't have the MFI. I wish it did, but I can't be too picky when I'm going away to school next year and the car's going into storage except for the winters.
Thanks
David

Keenan · #8 11-29-2004, 11:31 PM

diesel dog... 108s do have kingpin suspension, I need to lubricate mine.

joshhol · #9 11-29-2004, 11:49 PM

I wasn't confused on the matter.

Mark DiSilvestro · #10 11-30-2004, 12:35 AM

1. I've been running the old Pirelli P400 Radials that came on my '60 Fintail and they've been fine but I don't drive 'Miss Daisy' in the snow.

2. My Fintail has 4 wheel drum brakes. Since I've gotten used to them, I've found they're more than adequate but front discs would be so much better. The front discs I had, many years ago, on my '66 230 Fintail were superb.

3. My '66 Fintail 230 had the 'Kuhlmeister' hang-on AC.
On a 75 degree or warm, cloudy day, it would freeze me out of the car.
On a 95 degree, sunny day it was just adequate, but that 230 was black so the AC was working pretty hard.

4. Once she's warmed up, my '60 220S heater works fine at well below freezing but haven't tried at 'below zero'.

5. Starting my Fintails cold isn't/wasn't a problem as they both have/had Solexes, with manual chokes. The Zeniths were used after '62 on the 220S and 230S, but not my base Fintail 230.

6. Try a search. there's been much posted here about the Zeniths, though mostly in connection with the later W114 250 cars.

7. Insurance cost is about the same as my '84 Honda Accord, but I only carry liability.

8. Fun to drive? Well, she's more fun than my automatic 230 or my underpowered Ponton ever was, but she's not a 'go-kart' like my Honda. Still, when pushed, I'm amazed at the handling I get out of my 43 year old Fintail. She might be even more fun with power steering. When I get around to converting mine, I'll let you know

9. Even in modern traffic, power is adequate, though she's no tire-burner off the line. For a 43 year old, the smoothness and flexibilty of that straight six still amazes me. Keep in mind that my current Fintail is a stick-shift. The automatic in my '66 230 always started in second unless I floored the gas down to the kickdown switch or manually downshifted it.

As a daily-driver, a '65 220S in good shape would be OK, but not as an only car. I'm not paranoid about driving mine in the rain but I avoid snow. Mine is already rusty enough and if it weren't, snow and salt would eat her up! Not to mention the DC area drivers that don't have a clue about driving in snow (or even on clear roads either!) Some weeks, I drive my Fintail 4 or 5 days but, if the weather/roads are really bad she might sit for a week or two. I occasionally take the 220S out on the freeway but she really needs new tires and for long trips, my Honda's 33+ MPG on regular beats 'Miss Daisy's' 18 - 20 MPG on premium.
She's a grand old survivor and I mostly try to take it easy so she'll last awhile longer.

Happy Motoring, Mark

300SDog · #11 11-30-2004, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keenan

diesel dog... 108s do have kingpin suspension, I need to lubricate mine.

My point exactly, that's why 108 owners can speak for a ride that feels like it's running on rails.

WANT '71 280SEL · #12 11-30-2004, 03:20 PM

Are the seats very comfortable in such cars for long trips? Also, would it be adviseable to take it to Ziebart? I think they put on a suttf before the rubber that dries the metal and preps it.
Thanks
David

Mark DiSilvestro · #13 11-30-2004, 04:31 PM

In their day, Mercedes Fintail seats were orthopedically designed to be comfortable for long sessions behind the wheel, but after 40 years, there may be sagged cushions and broken springs.
Miss Daisy's driver's seat sags toward the door but a thick sheepskin cover improves comfort and hides the ragged leather.

I've heard that Ziebart has a checkered reputation and they generally won't guarantee rustproofing on an older car. If you wind up with a solid Fintail, it's best to avoid winter snow and salt. I've had good luck with squirting 90 weight gear oil inside rockers, wheel arches and other cavities on cars, even where rust has already started. There are also proper rustproofing compounds you can get, but I haven't tried them.

Happy Motoring, Mark

j9fd3s · #14 11-30-2004, 05:22 PM

1. dunno, in the dry its fine
2. they are decent, maybe a little grabby (63 220s with drums)
3. dunno, it doesnt work
4. it was fine the other night, high 30's temps
5. my brothers car fires right up, it only needs to crank if its been sitting for a couple weeks, the gas seems to run out of the carbs
6. we've had to do the brakes and the radiator hoses and stuff, car ran like a swiss watch from the day we brought it home
7. dunno, its a second car anyways. i think my 71 300sel is $152 a year for basic coverage
8. its a lot of fun to drive, we removed the rear muffler, and it sounds great

WANT '71 280SEL · #15 11-30-2004, 10:02 PM

Mark, I'm sorry to say, but I will have to probably drive this car at least for this winter. Then I'll be off to school and will only be ablke to drive it during the summer when I'm home! I'm hoping to delay selling my SD until the end of winter though...

Thanks
David