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  #1  
Old 02-11-2005, 10:58 AM
RR3 RR3 is offline
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Engine Rebuild on 6.3

Does anyone have any experience with engine rebuild of the 6.3?
Would you reccommend anyone over another.
Would an engine rebuild from Star Motors be any different from a rebuild at Metric Motors?

Any thoughts?

Thanks

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  #2  
Old 02-11-2005, 07:30 PM
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I do not know anything about Metric Motors but if I were going to do a rebuild on a 6.3 I would feel very confident that Star could provide eveything that I would want.
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  #3  
Old 02-11-2005, 10:03 PM
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Ouch!

I have read reports that a rule of thumb cost to rebuild a M100 is $10,000....
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  #4  
Old 02-11-2005, 10:18 PM
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6.3 and 6.9 (m100) rebuilds are NOT cheap. Do NOT expect to find parts on eBay or FastLane with the same ease you would with similar parts for an m117. Note on FastLane that valves, pistons, rings, and timing chains are NOT available - even simple parts like valve guides aren't listed - whereas for an m117, you can find almost anything! These were, in their day, the most expensive Benzes and in a way, still are to this day - parts cost an arm and a leg (and a kidney), and they're quickly vanishing from the road because of it. The poor person who thinks "This is a big block V8 Benz! For cheap! I can drive it and fix it as I go along" will become poorer and just change his or her view to "I'll just drive it until it dies."

Not to make it a lecture, but if you're considering an m100 engine rebuild, your body had BETTER be a full 9 at LEAST, if not a 10 (out of 10). You will NOT recover this in the value of the car if it's not! I suggest trying to find a 6.3 that runs like new or at least much better than yours, and possibly swapping parts around (or just the entire engine) as opposed to a rebuild. A $2500-5000 6.3 might have a decent engine but be cosmetically/structurally SHOT. Plus you get bonus parts for the suspension, if you're lucky enough to buy one that has at least one good airbag and valve - you'll come out on top that way!
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  #5  
Old 02-11-2005, 11:12 PM
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I second the opinion that rebuilding an M-100 engine is not a cost-effective route unless the rest of the car in question is IMMACULATE. Call Neil Dubey at Star Motors or Gary Ensor of Silver Star Motorwerks in Winchester, Kentucky. I think he might have one or two good running 6.3 engines in his shop, but I don't know whether he will sell or not.
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  #6  
Old 02-19-2005, 10:59 PM
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Tom and Aaron just gave you advice that is priceless. Expect various leaks. Drive the junker though. You can tell by feel if it's OK. The benifits of a parts car are huge. Extra, probably shot tranny, but who cares. An extra and probably good rear diff, that's a 2500 $ part.
Go into this slowly, make sure, YOU ARE SURE. A nice 6.3 is about the finest auto in the world and a treat comes with every drive. I just spent a fortune stopping tranny leaks. Quess what, it still leaks. Oh well, tough, right? Oh, but the power. This one is like magic. A monster with a perfect engine, near perfect tranny, rear diff, perfect interior and pristine paint.
Don't be afraid to change interior leather colors nor the paint color. Benz designers had a terrible paint color team. Muddy colors. Of the originals, I accept only five as decent; white, black, silver, silver blue, and the dark blue. Otherwise, I change them. Drive the color you wish type of deal. You can even change the woods. It is possible. Cognac with burl, pristine, again. What a combo with a dark, dark, green.
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  #7  
Old 02-20-2005, 01:10 AM
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If you are looking for a complete, running, ready-to-bolt-in 6.3 motor, with low miles on it, you can call my friend Robert Fenton, owner of European Car Service in San Rafael CA (just north of San Francisco). Robert has 4 or 5 6.3 motors, several 6.9 motors, and associated transmissions in stock, and would be happy to sell them. He pulled them out of wrecked cars, in running condition, so they are guaranteed to work.

You can reach Robert at 415-456-4077 weekdays, Pacific Time. He has a lot of M-100 related experience and is one of the better places to go on the West Coast for service and knowledge. In addition, Robert has around $5 million of inventory for all MBs (old and new) including TONS of new factory sheet metal if needed. Lots of original NOS M-100 parts in stock as well.

I'll bet Robert would sell an engine for $2K or less. For the best deal, tell him that I (Gerry Van Zandt) sent you.

Cheers,
Gerry
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  #8  
Old 02-20-2005, 01:20 AM
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RR3,

Did you read the PDF I recently prepared on M-100 ownership experience? I hope you're the exception to this generalized rule...

LINK: http://homepage.mac.com/gerryvz/M-100_0.9.pdf

I recommend that people forego M-100s and pursue a more modern "sleeper" type sedan...the 400E or better yet a 500E, or the 560SEL are all equal to higher-performing than the M-100 cars, but are infinitely easier to fix, maintain, obtain parts for, and drive on a daily basis.

Cheers,
Gerry
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  #9  
Old 02-20-2005, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerryvz
RR3,

Did you read the PDF I recently prepared on M-100 ownership experience? I hope you're the exception to this generalized rule...

LINK: http://homepage.mac.com/gerryvz/M-100_0.9.pdf

I recommend that people forego M-100s and pursue a more modern "sleeper" type sedan...the 400E or better yet a 500E, or the 560SEL are all equal to higher-performing than the M-100 cars, but are infinitely easier to fix, maintain, obtain parts for, and drive on a daily basis.

Cheers,
Gerry
i dont disagree with that, although it seems kinda morbid. i had the pleasure of "borrowing" my dads 95 e320 wagon for the last couple of weeks, and compared to the 71 300sel 3.5, its got the same power, 2x the mileage, plus it doesnt need any work done to it (its the one car my dad has had that everyone lusts over).

mike
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  #10  
Old 02-20-2005, 01:18 PM
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My wife has a 1995 E320 wagon and I agree, its 217 HP scoots the car along at quite a good clip.

I wasn't trying to be morbid, but rather just lay it on the line, up front, for those people who aspire to own a 6.3 or a 6.9 or a 600. You see, some years of observation have illustrated the "fantasies" that people have about owning these cars lead to some very poor buying decisions. People simply, don't know what they are getting into, and then get in over their heads on these projects.

What I came to realize over 6+ years of owning a 6.3 and 4 years of owning and driving a 6.9 daily, is that there are modern cars that offer significantly better performance, 1/10 the hassle, 5x the comfort, equal or better (in the case of the 500E -- handmade by PORSCHE no less) build quality, 2 orders of magnitude better technology, 10x the reliability, and the list goes on.

Now remember, I used to be the biggest booster of things M-100 (6.3, 6.9) probably in the country -- ask anyone who knows me. But after getting into some of the newer cars (560SEC, 500E) I realized over time how misguided my previous thoughts and preferences were.

The bottom line, it's nice to know that you are driving a high-performance car that isn't going to have some funky problem or failure that is going to leave you stuck somewhere...

Cheers,
Gerry
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  #11  
Old 02-20-2005, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzcrusher
I have read reports that a rule of thumb cost to rebuild a M100 is $10,000....
Ironic that this note of optimism is from "Benzcrusher".
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  #12  
Old 02-20-2005, 05:14 PM
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Well, in the case of most 6.3s, probably 80% of those still around are in reality rolling parts cars, and thus (sooner or later) headed for the crusher.....

Cheers,
Gerry
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  #13  
Old 02-20-2005, 06:14 PM
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Bring 'em on..... Well actually I've never seen any of the M100's on the roads here in SC...

Gary from the MBZ.org list had his rebuilt last year, it took forever just for them to track down the necessary parts....
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  #14  
Old 02-20-2005, 10:15 PM
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a rebuild is well more than 10k. Start with custom made pistons. And turn a 6.3 into a 6.9, it's the same block, it can be done over that way, and 6.9 parts are far more plentiful. That advice comes from my engine builder, who does all the work for the area dealerships.

Having said that, Potomic German Auto has been trying to sell an engine+tranny for a few months. Call them and see if they still have it. I believe it comes with a short warrentee. -CTH
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  #15  
Old 02-21-2005, 01:27 AM
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I agree with CTH. I believe a true 6.3 rebuild would be on the order of around $20K, done correctly. I can have 6.3 pistons made here in Portland for around $300 apiece, so that's not a major deal. But it's all of the things like bearings and auxiliary items that you have to have.

And then there's the question of the injection pump. You don't want to put a crappy injection pump on a newly rebuilt engine. And most 6.3 injection pumps are marginal, at best, these days because they weren't maintained. And though they can be rebuilt, certain critical components (such as the fuel cam profiles) are no longer available and not being "remanufactured" anywhere.

Best thing to do is just to buy a used motor for $2-5K and drop it into an existing car, in my estimation.

Dan Smith has rebuilt at least a half-dozen 6.3 motors from scratch, so perhaps he can chime in here with some expertise based on practical experience. Don't underestimate the importance of the injection pump to the overall happiness, efficiency and running characteristics of the engine.

Cheers,
Gerry

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