A/C unit my car is not the one that most 3.5 coupes has (some 280se 6cyl. coupes has the same). It looks very bad even it's BEHR. I looked around, but it seems like it's impossible to find the "original". Somebody is offering a Kuhlmeister unit from an early coupe(?). Is it worth changing? Would it go with Frigidaire compressor, existing condenser and dryer? Would the hoses fit? I assume the wiring can be changed easy. Would it fit in there at all? The blower seems to be way on the side instead of being in the back of the evaporator. Any thoughts would be very helpfull. I'm attaching a picture of existing BEHR and older Kuhlmeister A/C.

Thanks, Vilius

Attached Thumbnails

   

__________________
280se 3.5 coupe DB172 anthracite grey
2006 Toyota Avalon Limited
1999 Ford Explorer Limited
Looking for early '60s Vespa 150

That Kuhlmeister hang-on AC was originally fitted to early '60s W111 models. They were made for Mercedes by Thermo-king in Texas. Many years ago, I installed one salvaged from a wrecking-yard '63 220S, in my '61 Ponton 180b. That unit came with knobs that matched the smaller dash and radio knobs used by Mercedes in the early '60s. As for the blower location, the Fintail 220S had a cardboard panel concealing the space behind the glovebox and the original installer had cut a round hole in this panel to fit the motor. Hopefully, your coupe has the same space behind the glovebox. My Ponton had a welded steel panel under the dash, but I was able to modify the Kuhlmeister by flpping the blower assy 180 degrees. That put the blower near the passenger's knees, but I rarely carried passengers in that car so I didn't care.
In my opinion, without the blower directly behind the unit, the Kuhlmeister would stick out less and look better in your coupe, especially if you could find matching knobs. The BEHR AC used in the later W108 sedans had knobs like yours. I don't know if those would fit the Kuhlmeister, though I don't think the early smaller Kuhlmeister knobs would look too far out of place.

Is your existing BEHR AC working OK now?
I don't know if your BEHR AC hose fittings would fit the Kuhlmeister. If you can hook it up and the expansion valve is OK, the Kuhlmeister should work.
(The original York compressor, pulley and brackets from that '63 Fintail wouldn't fit my Ponton engine, so I used a Sankyo compressor, salvaged from a '74 Mazda, adapted a Honda pulley and made up my own brackets)

The BEHR AC used in later W108 sedans would be more 'correct' for your coupe. Those units had the blower mounted in the passenger kick panel and had a slim front panel like the Kuhlmeister. Unfortunately, those BEHR sedan units were mounted in a molded extension of the lower dash pad, which your coupe doesn't have. If you can find a W108 BEHR AC in a wrecking yard, you will see what I mean. Perhaps you could make up some matching trim to fit one of those in your coupe.

Happy Motoring, Mark

__________________
DrDKW

Thanks for the input, Mark. I just received an e-mail and the guy wants $350 for the Kuhlmeister. It's more than TEN times less what original BEHR would cost if I found one. It would be almost half the price of the car that I paid. And if anybody noticed, the original BEHR A/C knobs were recently sold on e-bay for $208!!! It's crazy. I'm not trying to make my car concourse condition, but it would be nice if it didn't have that ugly A/C sticking out. (I wonder where else this exact unit was used?) So I think the Kuhlmeister would look a lot better. And I could use Becker radio knobs or other knobs from 108 cars that would exactly match the rest of the controls. The only concern now is the blower. I have cardboard panel behind the glove compartment. But how much the blower will be sticking out? Fixing one thing I might ruin another. But on the other hand, many w111 cars including coupes, had this A/C. So may be it's not that bad.
The existing A/C doesn't work. Going through old paperwork I found that compressor had a leak. And all the wiring is very odd. Four add-on relays and four extra switches. I didn't even tried to find out what they do. I would like to remove everthing that is conected with the system and put new wiring. Are compressors rebuildable or I have to by new? Where should I look for a shop to rebuild it and what would I pay for it? How can I check expantion valve, receiver dehydrator? I've never worked on the A/C system before, so any advice is very welcome. I know, somebody might say leave it to expert, but some work I could do myself. For the final system charge and checkup I would take the car to the shop.
Wow, it became a long message. Thanks,

Vilius

__________________
280se 3.5 coupe DB172 anthracite grey
2006 Toyota Avalon Limited
1999 Ford Explorer Limited
Looking for early '60s Vespa 150

What's with all the knit-picking??

Hang the Kuhlmeister panel under your dash with 'rechromed' plastic dials and 'refinished' fake wood, stickey plastic strip in perfect condition and show competition points will probably increase, also bumping market value on your 3.5

Meanwhile there cant be one goddamned thing that's incompatiable between Behr system specs and the highly prized Kuhlmeister system, think about it.

(edit: A question of tradition, you understand, am thinkin any smart cobbler should be able to force fit Kuhlmeister components with existing Behr.

I can't advise you on the 4 extra relays and switches. Are you sure they're all for the BEHR AC? My old Kuhlmeister has only the rotary on-off-fan switch and thermostat switch that cycles the compressor, built into the under-dash unit, between the two vents. One wire goes to the compressor clutch. The other wire goes to a 12 volt power source. In the case of my Ponton, I had first hooked it to the fusebox, through the ignition circuit until one hot day when I noticed thin traces of smoke coming from my dash. Obviously, my Ponton's ignition switch wasn't designed for the extra AC electrical load. So I hooked the AC direct to the battery (through a fuse of course), since I was smart enough to remember to turn it off when I left the car.
I suppose I could have wired the AC-ignition power supply through a relay, but I was trying to keep it simple.

As far as the Kuhlmeister blower goes, in the original Fintail installation, a 3 inch round hole was cut in the under-dash cardboard, just for the motor. The 6 inch blower housing remained exposed below the cardboard.
I you're queasy about cutting holes in your factory original cardboard, remove it from the car for safekeeping and do without, or find some other cardboard to make a custom replacement to fit the AC, or reinstall and cut your original after the Khulmeister is fitted and working OK.

Since the Kuhlmeister is actually an American made unit, The original knobs are American copies of the early Mercedes dashboard switch and radio knobs. I can't be sure but you may be able to fit early Becker radio knobs, the type with a set-screw, if you can find them.

As for what AC should be the correct unit for your 280SE coupe, I have in front of me a book called 'Mercedes-Benz 110 Years of Excellence' opened to a photo of a 280SE 3.5 convertible dashboard. It shows a slim rectangular AC unit under the center of the dash, with two matching round knobs. The knobs are arranged vertically in the space between the two AC vents, not under the AC as in your coupe. The two knobs in the photo are plain black and DON"T match the Mercedes dash or radio knobs. (But I have seen BEHR AC knobs in early '70s Mercedes sedans that DID match) The AC has a rectangular tan plastic or vinyl surround matching the tan color of the dash padding. That AC unit sticks out of a carpeted housing concealing the AC blower. The AC housing mounts on the tranny hump and matches the carpets on the tunnel and floor. I presume that's the BEHR AC that guy wants to sell for over $3500! Recently, there have been some Forum members, selling '60s and '70s Mercedes parts. I'd check or do a search here before paying some Ebay speculator's extortion price.

All the early Mercedes BEHR and Kuhlmeister AC units, that I've seen, originally used a two-cylinder aluminum York compressor, as did thousands of hang-on AC units installed in the '60s and '70s by SEARS or WARDS. The York was also used in many factory ACs in Ford, AMC and some import cars. It was a very popular compressor and rebuilt units should still be availible cheap. The shaft seal kit and AC clutch bearing may still be availible from well-equipped autoparts stores, but if you're not sure about what overall shape your compressor is in, it may be best to go with a rebuilt. Or you may want to consider the upgrade kit availible to install a more compact and efficient Sanden compressor in place of the old York. A member posted a great article on the AC conversion here on 06-21-2004, so try a search, under 'Sanden', on this Forum.

Happy Motoring, Mark

__________________
DrDKW