'72 250SE 4.5 Oil+Water, The Saga Continues - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

BradleyP · #1 10-16-2005, 01:15 PM

Hi there,

Those of you who might have recalled my little dilemna a few weeks ago, I would like to take this moment to vent/ bang my head against the wall.

Well, $851.19 later, (we gave the mechanic $850 as the first payment when we still thought it was the head gasket, then he promised us a few hundred in return the day they discovered it was only a cylinder not firing) with 4 new plugs, a rebuilt radiator, a new thermostat, a serviced transmission, an oil change, and tune-up, I picked up the car and proudly drove it home, firing on all 8 cylinders.

We took it on a nice drive down to the San Joaquin Delta to stretch her legs. After returning to Sacramento, and getting off of the freeway, the car instantly started overheating in traffic again.

Well she finally cooled off, and did the same thing twice the next day, then once the day after.

If any of you recall, this was the same symptom I had before towing this car back from Tahoe.

Well, we finally got the shop to take the car on Thursday morning, and by friday night (after I showed up after work and saw a "block tester" sitting on the radiator with lots 'o bubbles coming up through it) They gave me the verdict that it was the head gasket. I recall coming up with this diagnosis in the beginning, and having it confirmed by the owner of the shop.

Needless to say, he quoted me 2000 to do the head gasket (and 3/4 of the things he's already done) originally, says he'll do the head gaskets now for no more than 1800-2100. Oh, but who can forget the caveat that the price is only good as long as any of the valves aren't toasted. But this is the same guy who knows the #1 cylinder had been taking on oil.

Can anyone help me with some good advice here before I lose it?

Heh.

iwrock · #2 10-16-2005, 01:25 PM

Be sure to get a second opinion. What part of Sacramento are you in? MY mechanic is VERY VERY honest. We had an oil leak that our old mechanic told us was the head gasket. We found our new mechanic 2 years ago (getting a second opinion) who told us we had a bad valve cover gasket. 96.34$ later no more oil anywhere.

I would definitely get another opinion before you have any work this expensive done.

BradleyP · #3 10-16-2005, 01:43 PM

We're out in Winters (just far enough away from Davis) but willing to go just about anywhere between here and the bay at this point...

Yeah I'd definitely be interested in seeing who you're using.

iwrock · #4 10-16-2005, 02:01 PM

Im on the other side of sacramento. I live in Citrus Heights, and my mechanic is about 2 miles from me. Hell, I think he is pretty good. Another member, Goldenbear, uses him too. I think he is well qualified to take care of this. He has never let us down, and now my dad has an SL600 that he services. My dads exact words "I would not have bought the V-12 without the help of Ernie."

Ernie's Independent MBZ repair. Give him a buzz: (916) 989-4973. Address: 6326 Main Ave. #14. Orangevale, CA, 95662.

Tomguy · #5 10-16-2005, 02:53 PM

How hot was it getting in traffic? If the coolant level is at all low (and I mean like 1/2" low), it WILL overheat. Make sure there is enough coolant in the rad. It's quite often overlooked but if it's not above the level of the bump by the neck, it will overheat amazingly fast. Is there actually water in your oil? If not, I doubt it'd be the head gaskets. See if the rad will take another gallon of water -If it's 1" low, it probably will!

BradleyP · #6 10-16-2005, 03:43 PM

Thanks Justin, I will call him first thing Monday Morning.

Tom, I did check the coolant level, and it was right where it should be, at the neck. I'd sure hope so, since I just had the radiator rebuilt.

On the subject of the Water in the Oil, I discovered what I believed to be water on the dipstick originally after a tough 2hr drive up about 6000' in elevation, and after letting the car sit overnight. So I hitched a ride down and returned with a trailer to retrieve it.

It's getting damn near up to the red line anytime you're idling at a light for more than 30seconds, and if you're going through stoplights in the afternoon at all. Once you return to the freeway or a country road, she settles back down to 175-180.

Here's the exact breakdown of what was done to the car last week (after changing the diagnosis of a head gasket blown to the car needing a tune-up)

1. Inspect vehicle for additional problems and advice.
Vehicle diagnosis and engine compression check

$90 labor

2. Engine Tune-Up
Tune-up engine including new spark plugs, distributor cap and rotor, Perform Oil change and change air filters

Labor:$135
Parts:
Rotor- $25
Distributor Cap- $72
Fuel Filter- $34.05
Spark Plug (8@$2.75)- $22.00
Air Filter- $65.00 !!!!!!!!!!
Oil Filter Kit - $8.25
Oil Change- $19.95

Parts - $246.25
Total - $381.25

3. Automatic Transmission Service

Service Automatic Transmission. Flush Fluid, change or clean filter and replace pan gasket. Inspect ATF Line to radiator and advise to cost.

Parts-
AutoTransFluid (8qt @ 3.50) - $28.00
Labor- $90

Total: $118.00

4. Cooling System Service

Labor Hours: 2 @ $60.00

Remove Radiator and engine oil cooler. Reinstall Radiator and top off coolant. Replace Thermostat.

Labor - $120.00
Parts:
Coolant 50/50 Mix - $7.50
Thermostat -$21.08

Sublet Labor: Radiator is leaking around the seams between the tank and the radiator body. Radiator top tank was removed, rod-out, top tank was re-soldered and all seams were pressure tested and re-soldered.
$85.00

Total- $233.58

Parts: $302.83
Labor: $520.00
Freight: $9.82
Tax: $18.48
Total: $851.19

Anyone see the coincidence that I had originally deposited $850 to get my head gasket done?!?!?!?!

UPDATE...Just for curiousity sake, I plugged in all the parts to the fastlane search, and I believe I discovered that he did get all my parts off here, according to the retail prices he used, at least. Funny thing is, he told my girlfriend (the registered owner) that he gives all students the parts at invoice cost.

It's getting deep in here.

Tomguy · #7 10-16-2005, 07:58 PM

I just find it odd, I suppose, that if the head gasket is leaking, you're not losing coolant, have no water in the oil or vice-versa, not smoking or running rough, and so forth. You're using premium unleaded gas right? It could be running too lean, too late, even have a stretched timing chain. Maybe someone with better knowledge can reply as to this.

Mark DiSilvestro · #8 10-17-2005, 08:47 AM

Coolant level stays normal and no smoking, missing or other symptoms?
Possibly a bad fan clutch.

Happy Motoring, Mark

iwrock · #9 10-21-2005, 12:43 AM

What was the verdict? I am anxious to find out what was causing this problem.

BradleyP · #10 10-22-2005, 12:41 AM

Thanks for asking Justin!

I just got back from the shop here a few minutes ago. I tried to get ahold of Ernies, but to no avail, my girlfriend gave the current shop the notice to proceed (after I was asked to leave for asking too many questions and getting irritated) But to the shop's credit, they're being very generous.

Heads came off today. Only lost one bolt. #1 cylinder was getting an oil and water mixture, #2 was on the road to the same issue, but not quite yet. Surprisingly, we were still getting 130psi +/- 2-3 psi on all the cylinders. Looks like we caught it early enough. Lots 'o carbon on the heads, which verifies the fact that although this car had been driven, it didn't see a lot of freeway time, or time over 35-40 mph by the sounds of it.

The guides above the two suspect cylinders are pretty bad off, and the remaining 6 are probably going to be replaced. Not the extra few bucks that I want to see, but....

One other concern of mine is the timing chain. Although it did look tight, and the mechanic believes it is tight, and quite possibly have been replaced prior.
But, there was some evidence of chain whip on the inside of the head.

Other than a new set of guides, we're also getting rid of the problem of the exhaust gasket. Overall, I believe that we're getting a pretty fair deal on the whole thing, based on its purpose of being a daily driver for my girlfriend, who has a 45 minute commute. I'm finding myself more and more willing to invest the money.

billrei · #11 10-22-2005, 12:58 AM

So are we going to see you next week in Pismo Beach??

BradleyP · #12 10-22-2005, 01:09 AM

We're really gonna try. If not, Turkey Day should be the time.