Could our cars become (omigosh) retro cool? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

michaeld · #1 05-19-2006, 12:25 AM

A new trend: young people are looking for 'grandpa' cars from the 70s. Here's the link - http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06129/688701-185.stm - and the text is pasted below.

The article doesn't mention Mercedes-Benzes, but it's difficult to understand why they would be ignored by the crowd seeking big comfortable cruisers.

Would it be good or terrible for our cars if they suddenly became 'hip'?

Young car buyers covet 'Grandpa' cars

Tuesday, May 09, 2006
By Jennifer Saranow, The Wall Street Journal

AUGUSTA, Ga. -- Jabari Bryant didn't go to a car dealership to buy his new car last fall. The 28-year-old went to a retirement community in Tybee Island, Ga., where for $2,000 he bought a navy blue 1988 Chevrolet Caprice Classic Brougham from a man who was "at least 83."

The seller said "his eyesight was going and he had no use for the car," recalls Mr. Bryant, an automobile glass installer from Savannah.

Young people today don't want their father's Oldsmobile -- they want their grandfather's. Some of the hippest wheels for under-30 drivers today are models commonly identified with seniors: Oldsmobiles, Buicks, Chevrolets and Cadillacs from the 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s.

From Collins Ave. in Miami Beach's South Beach neighborhood to International Blvd. in Oakland, Calif., teens and young adults are cruising in "grandpa" and "grandma" cars that they have painted bright colors like lime green, outfitted with fancy sound systems and propped up on monster-truck-style wheels. They're sweet-talking their grandparents into giving up old cars and offering to buy them on the spot from strangers.

Television shows, such as MTV's "Pimp My Ride," and rappers, including Snoop Dogg, are helping to drive the craze. There's even a new magazine, Donk, Box & Bubble, dedicated to the tricked-out-oldie-car culture.

For U.S. car makers, struggling to lift sales, it's a painful irony that the models striking a chord with young buyers aren't those rolling off the assembly lines today but rather ones made decades ago. Detroit's marketers are trying to figure out how to ride the trend without ruining it.

"The worst thing you can do is start to promote this," says Steve Shannon, Buick general manager.

Besides the older models' low price tags, young people say they like the challenge of adding features like big wheels to vehicles that weren't designed for them. The cars are easier to work on than newer, more-computerized versions and are sure to stand out. There's also the cool factor of being so "out" you are "in."

Mr. Bryant was showing off his car in Augusta on a recent Saturday at the "Big Car Showoff," organized by MIA Entertainment Inc.'s East Coast Ryders, which sells DVDs mostly depicting revamped older cars. He has spent about $11,000 customizing his Caprice, now painted "tangerine orange" and lifted onto 24-inch wheels, instead of the 15-inch wheels they came with. Arrayed nearby were about 300 similar vehicles, from a 1972 Chevrolet Impala with an ostrich-skin interior to a 1984 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme lifted four feet off the ground.

If you have one of the grandpa cars and you fix it up, "everyone just thinks ... you got the tightest car," says Tilton Jackson, a 20-year-old stereo installer who likes to show off his 1995 Buick LeSabre on Oakland's International Blvd. Mr. Jackson bought it for $5,000 from an elderly couple who had used the car just to get between home, the store and the hospital. "We're not mocking old people or trying to make fun of them. They are just driving cool cars," says Mr. Jackson, who plans to airbrush Smurfs onto his blue LeSabre.

The shift is starting to show up in market research. Brands like Buick still have an average buyer around age 60. But the percentage of used-car shoppers between 18 and 24 who said they would consider a Buick LeSabre jumped 168 percent in the first quarter of this year from a year earlier, the biggest increase of any model, according to market research firm CNW Marketing Research Inc., Bandon, Ore. And fewer 16-to-24-year-olds think such models are "for an older person" than did in the past, according to a CNW study tracking cars' so-called "stodgy index."

J.D. Power & Associates' Power Information Network reports that buyers 16 to 35 years old accounted for 35 percent of sales of 1989 Buicks last year, up from 29 percent in 2003. Similarly, the age group represented 34 percent of 1989 Cadillac sales last year, up from 20 percent in 2003.

East Coast Ryders, the DVD company and publication that put together the old-car show in Augusta, this month is releasing a toy model line of tricked-out older cars. Donk, Box & Bubble magazine, an offshoot of Harris Publications Inc.'s Rides Magazine, started at the end of February.

"Donks" derived their name, according to one customizer, from the "big old donkey tires" that people put on those vehicles in the Southern U.S. Originally used for Chevrolet Caprices or Impalas from 1971 to 1976 decked out with fancy features and big rims, the term now often refers to all dressed-up older vehicles. Hip-hop car magazine Dub Magazine is working on building a 1996 Chevrolet Impala in the "donk style" with 30-inch wheels. And MTV's "Pimp My Ride" television show, which provides outlandish makeovers to jalopies, is creating its first "donk."

Rapper Snoop Dogg arrived at the MTV Video Music Awards last summer in a "donk" 1967 Pontiac Parisienne, painted in Los Angeles Lakers gold, with purple trim. In California, where "scraypers" or "scrapers," late 1980s and 1990s Buick models, are popular, a Scrayper magazine is in the works -- the term's origin is unclear, though some believe it refers to the way the huge rims make the tires scrape the inside of the car's fender. And a new rap group recently made its debut with the name "ScrayperBoyz." A Web site dedicated to the so-called Scrayper movement describes the newfound street credibility of the old cars: "We take what was intended to be a car for old retired people, a car whose national sponsor is Tiger Woods ... and we make it hood famous."

Car makers say they just became aware of the latest iteration of the mania for older cars in recent months after being contacted by customization magazines and now are trying to figure out how to make some of the hipster allure rub off on their newer vehicles and accessories.

General Motors Corp.'s Buick brand is providing new Lucerne models to Dub Magazine and to customizers to display at an upcoming car accessory show. And Chevrolet is considering dressing the current Impala in "a donk style" for display at car shows and in magazines.

One potential obstacle: many newer models are front-wheel drive, more difficult to lift up "donk style" than old rear-wheel drive ones. "Donk" designs are lifted to accommodate wheels bigger than 22 inches.

"I would rather have an older car than a new car any day," says Cedric Pollard, a 26-year-old from Greenville, S.C., who bought a 1985 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme for $2,000 last year. "It rides better and I can work on it myself." Mr. Pollard's Cutlass now features a picture of comic-book superhero Punisher holding Osama bin Laden's head.

An element of nostalgia also drives some purchasers. "I kind of share a taste in cars with my dad, who liked the big, comfortable stereotypical grandpa cars," says Klayton Kelly, a 27 year old in Bothell, Wash., who just replaced his Honda Civic with a 1993 Chrysler LeBaron. Plus, he says, "everyone has got a Honda," and when you go over a bump in the LeBaron, "it feels like you are floating over it."

Many of the older models have bucket seats, making them perfect for cruising with friends. The girls "yell and scream when you drive by," says Tim Robinson, a 22-year-old from Auburn, Ala. Mr. Robinson's 1994 Ford Crown Victoria, blue with orange flames, has an "orange swirl" crushed velvet interior and 23-inch wheels.

Chris Kilian first saw his 1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme eight months ago in someone's yard. He knocked on the door and asked the "older man probably 65 or 70," who opened the door if he wanted to sell the car for $1,500. Mr. Kilian a 25-year-old self-employed car salesman, tools around South Beach in his Oldsmobile, which is now lifted 56 inches off the ground on 26-inch wheels, and painted four different shades of pink.

Strife · #2 05-19-2006, 12:32 AM

These things come and go. In high school, I had the coolest car, a 68 Camaro that looked like a Z-28 with Cragars. But towards the end of high school, a girl I briefly dated said that the "new thing" was big, comfy cars - she and her girlfriends got tired of the burnouts and terrors of high-speed reckess driving!

#3 05-19-2006, 07:36 PM

Girls always know whats up. I drove a 72 mustang in highschool, but what they REALLY loved was the family's subaru stationwagon. Inexplicably, their mothers hated the 'stang and loved the station wagon too...I never got that.

http://www.low-mercy.com/index2.html

Click on the lower link of the menu doesn't work.

Sure, the kids are fashion victems, but that w114 is nice. Black on red, de-badged, euro lights and dual bumpers on the front is a nice touch. The wheels are a bit much, but its a style and well done.

cheers,
dan r.

Jim B. · #4 05-19-2006, 10:08 PM

Interesting article, I always loved these cars, and having personally ignored the derision of my friends, through my twenties, thirties and forties sought out and campaigned these grandpa cars, Delta 88, Coupe de Villes and Crown Victorias.

They were still good cars. And many are still in service here, as well as the Middle East, where they did well. Inexpensive to buy and maintain, those American cars handled like a balloon on a river, but were long lasting if maintained by their typically non enthusiast owners. They improved with cat-back dual exhaust systems too.

I can't say I like the bling and pimp my ride trend, applied to these, but rather enjoy see them as being well kept good cars.

I have seen some of the Mercedes get pimped up, and it ain't pretty.
The spoilerboyz get their hands on one, and the suspension geometry is going to get compromised, and no one benefits from that. Even if it makes the cars more covetable to obtain.

TheDon · #5 05-19-2006, 10:33 PM

anyone a member of thesamba.com... the VW site that is kinda like this one.. well there is a site called hoodride.com which is a site for VW owners that like there vdubs with patina and crap... i pray to god there will never be a donk w123 .. i love my stock w123.. no hoodrides for me

deanyel · #6 05-19-2006, 10:34 PM

Whatever emerging trend there was here will be killed by high gas prices.

djd · #7 05-20-2006, 08:08 PM

Today my 19 year old son (and I) bought a 1992 Crown Victoria LX. Solid as a rock, no rust, beautiful blue velour interior, new tires, 4.6 liter V-8, power everything. Rides smooth as glass and purrs like a kitten. One owner - who has no need for cars any longer..... Price: $2500. What's not to love?

Just the thing for a 19 year old - a tank with air bags.

Seller claims 19-20 in the city and 26 on the highway.

My 16 year old daughter loves to drive the 250S. Turns lots of heads.
Dennis

michaeld · #8 05-20-2006, 09:16 PM

Let me jump back in here.

From my reading of this article, along with several others (this is a BIG new fad! The car companies are trying to ride it in their new styling offerings), this is not about kids trying to buy cheap dependable transportation (heck, I'm one of those types!). Rather,this is about young adults with money who could afford a new car, but are choosing instead to buy 'grandpa' cars and spend big bucks on wheels, tires, funky paint, and top sound systems. It's right in sync with Hollywood producing big budget remakes of old tv shows and movies.

For those of who who despise philosophy, stop reading here, as I am about to wax philosophical. Here's my two cents on this trend:

Postmodernism is taking over the minds and cultures of the Western world. Ultimately, according to postmodern thought, there is no ultimate, fundamental reality; rather, there is only surface appearance, which is shaped entirely by one's culture. To put it another way, I think the way I do (bearing in mind that individual identity is itself merely a cultural creation) because my culture molded and conditioned me to think that way.

If there is no deeper reality, than surface appearance is all that matters. I once saw a T-shirt that expressed it in a nutshell: "It's not who you are, it's how you look; I mean, who really cares who you are, anyway?"

Now how does this relate to young people buying old cars, you ask? This new trend is all about a look, a style, a fad - and nothing else. These kids are dumping all their money (to the tune of $7500-10000) into the surface aspects of the cars: tires, wheels, paint, stereo: it's all about the obvious. THAT is the heart and soul of postmodernism. There's no "there" there!

You know why I love my Benz so much? Because my 450SEL resonated genuine SUBSTANCE to me; there really IS a "there" there in this old car. To the extent that a car can have a soul, my car has one. These cars transcend the surface veneer of appearance and reach into something deeper and even more "real" than the materials from which they are built. The metal, chrome, wood, and leather communicate the deeper realities of quality, pride, elegance, power, and beauty.

I hope they don't mess with our Benzes because I would prefer them to remain as a testimony to an age that believed in substance and meaning.

#9 05-21-2006, 12:06 AM

Yeah, I don't think gas prices have much to do with this.

Michael, I have a different reading of postmodernism and cars. I see it most often in the re-hashing of old designs. The new beatle shares NOTHING (mechanical design, purpose, price point, design goals) with the old one, it just appears to be an extension of the old model. The hot-rod guys who take modern mechanicals and make it look old are doing the same thing. Recycling ideas that were considered 'modern' in their time; now the modern is old to us and new again. Postmodernism to me means we ran out of good ideas...

I'd say these guys are existential mechanics; they don't care what others think a car's one, true form is. Rather, they are concerned what what their care will be like, and to heck with what what other people say. Existance before Essence, individual before form and no preconceived notions allowed!

cheers,
dan r.
(who shall flip burgers till the day he dies)

t walgamuth · #10 05-21-2006, 09:15 AM

remember all you youngsters!

a beatle is named john paul george or ringo.

a beetle is a vw.

and i dont care why they keep and drive old cars, it is good. til they paint them huge metallic flaked lime green and put on 22" wheels.

yikes!

tom w

Tomguy · #11 05-21-2006, 01:12 PM

My take on this is probably different than all of yours.

A kid can spend $5000 on a used Honda and drive what everyone else (like his mom) drives. He can put fartcans on it, but it's still the same as what everyone else has. After the window tinting and the fartcan, he's spent $5500 on a car and he doesn't want to or can't spend much more.

But if he buys a $2000 Olds 88, he can spend $1500 on a paint job, $500-1000 on rims, and maybe even have enough money for suspension modifications to make his car truly unique. Plus there are a lot more mechanics who know how to work on 70's and 80's era US models than 90's-00's era imports - maybe even the buyer him/herself. It has less to do with post-modernism and more to do with self-expression and... dare I say it... these kids actually thinking their purchases through! If you were 16 what would YOU rather have - the same thing as everyone else with the same fartcan and same window tint and wing, or something unlike what ANYONE else drives? It's part of the reason we drive our cars, because we know they're unique and the effort that went in to creating them is unlike most anything else (aside from the quality, reliability, and the style that draws us in).

And I forgot to add initially... the whole "Pimp my ride" craze has a lot to do with it too. They don't "Pimp out" new Hondas, they make older cars cool. And for a kid to do that himself, it brings a sense of pride. I may not care for some of it myself, but it's a lot more original than driving something that sounds like it's straining to go up a hill.

burnerjunky · #12 05-23-2006, 01:31 AM

I'm 16 and i just bought a 300sd. I didn't buy it to be hip, but more to go along with my own style. I like the more 70's 80's Euro car style. I agree with Tomguy, I would rather spend 5k into a nice classic car and fixing it up rather than buying a honda civic and being like every other kid at my highschool. Plus i thik it is cool to keep the old styles alive so they don't get forgotten.

michaeld · #13 05-23-2006, 03:55 AM

In response to Tomguy (and particularly to Burnerjunky), let me just say that you captured MY thinking about buying old cars. I've loved 70's American cars since my parents bought a new 76 Mercury Montego station wagon when I was a kid. It was a big decision for my family, and they went to quite a few dealerships before making their decision. I vividly remember how exciting it was, the new car smell, the test drives, the weighing pros and cons of each car. It was great. And I still love those cars today.

Are some of the young people who are taking part in this trend doing it for the reason that tomguy indicates? Of course some are! It's too big of a trend for everyone who takes part in it to have the same exact reason. And to the extent that few people today think holistically or systematically, a lot of these young people couldn't tell you why they're doing what they're doing if you asked them. BTW, burnerjunky, if YOU were taking part in this fad, you would be modifying the suspension of your 300SD for the sole purpose of putting giant wheels (reminiscent of HOT WHEELS on the car), painting it some garish color, and installing a ginormous (that's 'gigantic + enormous) sound system. You would not be worrying over the engine, transmission, etc. because your focus would be on style over anything else. The mere fact that you bought a diesel car is enough to tell me that you are NOT one of the people I'm describing.

My reading of this trend is that it is ultimately NOT about young people looking for cheap reliable transportation, or seeking out what they think of as a "classic" (i.e. a beloved vehicle worth preserving). That's been going on since the first Model T's became cheap enough for teens to own. I think rather that they are taking cars that pop culture has largely rejected - but which still have a residual impression as an icon from modern America (i.e. big cars, families that lived together, stay-at-home moms, 1776-1976 celebrations, that sort of thing) - and then they start playing around with that iconic image.

I look at this expression as art. Here's what one expert in postmodernism says about "postmodern art." Tell me if you see the "donk" trend in this description:

"There is, perhaps, a degree of consenus that the typical postmodernist artifact is playful, self-ironizing and even schizoid, and that it reacts to the austere autonomy of high modernism by impudently embracing the language of commerce and the commodity. Its stance towards cultural tradition is one of irreverent pastiche, and its contrived depthlessness undermines all metaphyisical solemnities, sometimes by a brutal aesthetics of squalor and shock" (Terry Eagleton, Awakening From Modernity, p. 9).

I might be reading too much into this trend. The fact that it is a NEW trend (of young working people who HAVE money and could buy brand new cars if they wanted), not an age-old one (of young people seeking cheap, quality transportation in older cars and then fixing them up), tells me I'm on to something, however. Postmodern artists love nothing more than taking a symbol of modernism and subjecting it to a form of ridicule based primarily on irony. Postmodernism often seeks to recast and/or ridicule premodernism and modernism:The 1995 movie The Brady Bunch remake was a classic case in point, as the film took the 1970s family and their values and proceeded to transform them into nutjob caricatures of themselves. A lot of young people might be doing "the donk" just because the "cool people" are doing it; but I think the motivation of the originators of the fad was postmodern to the core. I guess it boils down to whether you think what these people are doing to these cars is an honoring of the art form of the 1970-80s cars or a grotesque mockery of same.

BTW, some definitions for those who don't have a clue what "postmodernism" is:
Premodernism (aka Classical philosophy, from the ancient Greeks [Socrates, Plato, Aristotle] to the 18th century): it sought to find objective meaning, truth, and ultimately reality in the world based entirely on the existence of a Creator God who created man in His image. Man, created in the image of God, could apprehend ultimate truth in the world that God created for man.

Modernism (from the 18th century to appx the fall of the Iron Curtain, i.e. 1789-1989): it sought to find objective meaning, truth, and ultimate reality apart from God, based entirely on human reason. It was the attempt to begin from Descartes' Cognito, ergo sum ("I think therefore I am") and from there derive everything that is knowable.

Postmodernism (1989 on, although it's father is widely recognized to be Frederich Nietzsche, who died in 1900): It claims God is dead, the experiment of modernism has failed, and that we should abandon any and all illusions of objective meaning, truth, and ultimate reality. They simply don't exist. It further abandons any notion of individual identity, claiming that human beings are societal constructions shaped entirely by culture. Every culture creates its own version of reality; there is therefore ultimately no there there. Frighteningly, it's political end becomes tribalism and fascism, as each culture struggles to prevail over others based on its own "will to power" as every pretext of a basis of rational moral argument is abandoned. [BTW, postmodernists love to dissect "culture" into numerous sub-cultures (blacks, women, homosexuals, etc., etc.) and then pit them against each other].

I apologize for my philosophy lesson. I should have known at some point my love for philosophy and my love of cars would intersect at some point.
Mike

#14 05-23-2006, 04:40 PM

Quote:

remember all you youngsters!

a beatle is named john paul george or ringo.

John Paul George who?

Quote:

I guess it boils down to whether you think what these people are doing to these cars is an honoring of the art form of the 1970-80s cars or a grotesque mockery of same.

1) Aw...cut these guys a break. They didn't wake up one morning and think 'Today I'm going to insult an art form,' they just went looking for an inexpensive way to express themselves. Their motives are not any more postmodern than those of my father's generation who chopped, channeled and fitted HUGE wheels to model t's.

Sure, they are recycling ideas of the previous generation and giving it their own spin, but so what? Is greek architecture depthless and postmodern simply because it borrowed and modified the existing greek designs? Or is all recycling of ideas and designs postmodern? Be careful here, i'm sure you're 450SEL has some ideas that were 'borrowed' from other designs. Works of art are seldom entirely original...

2) And if it is a work of art, why should it not value style over substance?

michaeld · #15 05-24-2006, 04:17 AM

Dan,
I tried to communicate that not everyone involved in this trend is doing it to be "postmodern" and "insult an art form" even if the trend itself is postmodern. Most of these young people are frankly too ignorant to understand WHAT they are. Obviously, the Greeks were premodern, or Classical, in their thought and would have vigorously rejected postmodernism and all its assumptions.

You might be right about the fact that young people have always chopped (though I say "butchered") cars. Putting huge wheels on Model T's is something I didn't know about.

It's the fact that these people - who have plenty of money - care only about the surface appearance of the car and seemingly absolutely NOTHING about the powertrain that makes me believe this is a postmodern trend. Most of the kids I grew up with cared ONLY about the engine, tranny, and rear end and NOTHING about the surface appearance (If I had a nickle for every hot rodded old car that was covered in primer, I'd be rich). But I won't say any more about postmodernism than I've already said.

BTW, John, Paul, George, and Ringo are the names of the four Beatles. The Volkswagon was called the Beetle.
Mike