Hello,
This is my first post in this part of the forum. I am a Mercedes diesel fan, however, more and more some other models are calling me and they are only available in gas. I am interested in purchasing a W108 or W109 sedan. I know nothing about these. Here are a few general questions that I have:

1. Besides the different models what are the differences between a W108 and W109 or are they the same structure? (i.e. wheel base, width, etc.)

2. Ideally, I would like to find one in a manual. What models sold the U.S. had manuals?

3. As far as checking over one of these chassis are there any particular things to look for?

4. Any other words of wisdom, caution……

Thank you in advance.

1. Besides the different models what are the differences between a W108 and W109 or are they the same structure? (i.e. wheel base, width, etc.)

W108 are sprung cars, W109 cars have air suspension and more luxury items.

2. Ideally, I would like to find one in a manual. What models sold the U.S. had manuals?

Some more basic models in the US were sold with manuals. Euro 6 cylinder cars were offered with a 5 speed manual option and the Euro 3.5 V8 was offered with a 4 speed manual.

3. As far as checking over one of these chassis are there any particular things to look for?

Rust, fuel injection issues (both the 6 cyl and v8's) , sagging sub frames, saggy air suspension on the W109 cars. Leather and wood is also very expensive to restore. Broken heater or heater levers are very expensive to replace as it's hard to get to

4. Any other words of wisdom, caution……

From someone who has restored a very poor example, buy the best you can afford. Avoid the 6.3 unless your willing to pay serious cash for up keep.
Finally, these are great cars, I'm telling you the bad stuff so you can watch out for it , but the good out weighs the bad any day. Good luck

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With best regards

Al

i'd stay away from the 109 unless you had a lot of cash...

....look for rust... in trunk and lower front quarter panels.

look for a model with good bushings and anything rubber...a sign that someone took care of it...

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1989 300ce 129k
( facelifted front,updated tail lights, lowered suspension,bilstein sports, lorinser front spoiler, MOMO steering wheel, remus exhaust,stainless steel brake lines). (Gone)

1997 s320 154k (what a ride). Sold with 179k miles. Replaced with Hyundai Equus

1994 e320 Cabriolet 108k



1972 280se 4.5 153k Owned for 12 yrs, sorry I sold it


[/SIGPIC]

I have been looking for the same series MB for a couple of months now. This link will take you to a useful site on the W108/109 models. It provides a nice overview:

http://www.geocities.com/mbz109/

Whether your preference is for a coupe, cabriolet or sedan, I would consider the following:

- The W109 is a more complex machine

- Rust, rust, rust - you will find some good threads on this subject, here and at other MB forums, which will point you to the suspect areas.

- the real mileage, i.e. true odometer readings

- You have a pretty wide range of engines, from the inline 6 to the big 6.3 V8. Consider how you want to use the car and whether you will service it yourself (all or part). I like to work on my cars, but my time is limited, so I ended up narrowing my search to a 67-72 280SE/SEL (W108), M130 engine (inline 6) w/ FI. Opinions may vary on this, but of this series, I believe this model will be the easiest and least expensive to care for.

-The general consensus has it that fuel injection (SE) is more reliable.

- Many owners (sellers) do not really know the condition of their car. I have traveled to inspect cars represented by all sorts of "positive" descriptive adjectives only to find the vehicle's condition inaccurately characterized.

- Make all purchases contingent upon a prepurchase inspection

- Carefully inquire as to the vehicle's ownership and service history. With Internet, Ebay, etc., there are a lot of people flipping these cars. Try to find a car owned by a fellow enthusiast or the original owner. Although many people have good success with Ebay, I cannot imagine buying a W108/109 w/o inspecting it first. Cars that I have inspected, and passed on, due to serious rust issues have ended up on Ebay with little mention of their true condition. Even worse, they have sold for top dollar.

Many of these vehicles, despite their appearance, are at a point where they need a serious investment to go another 30+ years. Approach w/ caution.

The best advise I can offer is be patient and use this forum. It is a wonderful resource and frequented by enthusiasts who know a lot more about these cars than I do. On Sunday, I am flying off to pick up my "new" W108: a 1971 w/ 62k original miles. This car has been owned and loved my someone even more obsessive than me. Although I let a couple of good ones slip through my fingers, patience finally paid off.

Good luck ,Jim

Ali Is right,steer clear of the 6.3...we need to keep the value down So i can buy them... .
There is only one way to buy a W109-018(6.3) ,get an independent assesment done by a MERCEDES specialist,and buy the best you can afford.A two owner 6.3 has been sold recently in the US for $95,000.That's how much you will have to pay to get a car in "turnkey" conditon,$25,000 gets you a useable good conditon car and anything less is really just a project.
Good W109 3.5's will get $10,000 + and the same rule applies ,you pay less- you get less.

The 95k sale was a tad suspicious

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MB-less

Here's a 67 108 250S manual floor shift on eBay.4 speed with dual carbs. Could be fun. Wouldn't mind a stick myself in a 108.

"May fortune favor the foolish"
James T. Kirk





http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=130000639416&ih=003&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

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Present
1971 280SE W108

1967 250SE W111
Rhode Island
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Auf Wiedersehen
1972 280SE 4.5 (AKA Das Moneypitten)
1972 250C (Mit den zwei carburetors from hell)

"Time fly’s like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana" Groucho Marx

I have a 6.9 and 6.3, both cars to "avoid". I have had only a few issues related to the uniue aspects of the cars, primarily the suspension. The overall condition and history of ANY car that is 30+ years old is going to determine what your future issues ($$$) might be. Don't be scared away from this TYPE of car, but be scared of any PARTICULAR car that does not look up to snuff. Buying on the cheap and throwing "a few bucks to fix her up" does NOT apply.

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MB-less

I don't think there's a true U.S. model stick shift after the 250 - and the 250 isn't a very good motor. You're really narrowing yourself with the stick - better to look for a good car - with a floor shift automatic.

Hi Fred,the first sale @ $100,000 was definately Suss ,but it did sell later to a genuine buyer,thankfully,the Seller was merely speculating but we both know the arguments that caused.
Regarding the 250...yes it is a troublesome engine,back in the day they were known for either breaking the crank or running bearings.There is a series of modifictions listed in the mercedes Workshop manual updates.It would be highly unlikely after almost 40 years for any of these early engines to be still running .
The stick shift in any Mercedes is a novelty at best and can be a bear to drive in traffic.

In the US, stick was rare but avaible up until 1970 on the 6 cylinder 280S and SE, after which it became an option limited to the 4 cylinder diesels until the mid '80s. Having driven a stick (column-shift no less) '69 280S and currently owning a Fintail 220S (same manual-shift), I find them more enjoyable and satisfying than the automatics, though my Fintail isn't my only car so it doesn't have to endure daily rush hour traffic. I wouldn't overlook a carb model as I believe the carbs are an easier/cheaper DIY proposition, especially when compared to a neglected FI system.

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

I agree. That's enough to buy a nice swb 600, or two.

I remember that sale, the auction ended early and the gentleman sold the car in a private deal. You should have seen the car, I think it had either 8000 or 16000 miles. It looked brand new.

Quite breath taking. To a collector, it may be worth something. If a camaro can fetch that much then why not a Mercedes?

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With best regards

Al

Having had assorted 108's, 111's & 113's I would concur with much of what has been written here. I had a 1968 280S with a 4 speed manual (and no power steering) which I thought drove smoother than the old 4 speed automatic six cylinders. I have had 111 3.5's, one with a manual and one automatic. I greatly prefered the automatic. Overall, I find the 4.5's the most modern of the 108 breed and the least challenging to live with. None of these cars get any great fuel economy, so just accept it or move on. I totally agree that you should buy the best car you can find/afford. Rusty cars are really just rolling parts inventories. Happy hunting!

The 4.5 was too "Americanized " for my tastes. It had a longer stroke(lower revs) and lower compression. The 3 speed transmission shifted like a Oldsmobile.

The 3.5 was a different animal, with short stroke and high compression it produced 230 hp. From 218 cubic inches that is still pretty impressive. It liked to rev, and the 4 speed auto with a fluid coupling, and not a torque conv., made it feel like the car had a stick shift.

I agree, buy the best car you can afford. Even a minor restoration can cost 10k in todays money.