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  #1  
Old 07-13-2006, 02:05 AM
Archipeep
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: California
Posts: 30
Window woes 1973 280C

My 73' 280c windows were working fine. Then all of a sudden, all of them don't work. Checked the fuses, all are fine. Checked the connections to the switches, all fine. Any thoughts out there? Where would you start troubleshooting this? Thanks in advance for your help.

Greg

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81' 300d
73' 280c
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  #2  
Old 07-13-2006, 03:27 AM
250 Coupe's Avatar
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The pointy ended fuses can corrode in the holders. Try spinning them to clean the contact surface. There may be some fuse blocks on the passenger side of the engine compartment along the fire wall also.

Michael
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Usta haves '69 250/8, '76 280C, 1971 250C 114.023, 1976 450SEL 116.033
Current have, 1983 300SD 126.120
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  #3  
Old 07-13-2006, 07:02 AM
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Location: Falls Church, VA
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You did check the right fuses? In the engine compartment on the passenger side.

If they all quit at once, I would look check for power to the fuses, which comes off the ignition switch. Also, the wiring diagram off the CD does not include the power windows. I wonder if MB stuck a relay in there somewhere.

Let us know what you find.
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Chuck Taylor
Falls Church VA
'66 200, '66 230SL, '96 SL500. Sold: '81 380SL, '86 300E, '72 250C, '95 C220, 3 '84 280SL's '90 420SEL, '72 280SE, '73 280C, '78 280SE, '70 280SL, '77 450SL, '85 380SL, '87 560SL, '85 380SL, '72 350SL, '96 S500 Coupe
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  #4  
Old 07-13-2006, 08:12 PM
Archipeep
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: California
Posts: 30
Relays and such...

Relays make some sense. Any guess as to where the relays would be located? I'll take a look when I get home.

As for the fuses, I'm replacing them all tonight just to be safe. Didn't realize that there would be a fuse block on the passenger side. I'll check it out. Thanks guys, I'll let you know what I find.

Also, I need an opinion. Are the CDs worth it? It seems that they are my best bet for manual type information, but are there any other manuals out there to get? For my 75' Honda CB500t, I found a dealer repair manual that was AMAZING. I'm looking for the same sort of thing... Extensive general information.

Thanks again.
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Last edited by archipeep; 07-13-2006 at 08:22 PM.
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  #5  
Old 07-13-2006, 10:02 PM
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The relay would protect the motors from low voltage.

I just looked again on the CD. There is no mention of electric windows and they are not on the wiring diagram.

If the fuses are OK, you need to trace the wire from the fuse blocks back and see where it goes.

As far as technical info goes, I like the Haynes manuals. You need to buy two. The SOHC 6 for the body and the DOHC 6 for the engine.
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Chuck Taylor
Falls Church VA
'66 200, '66 230SL, '96 SL500. Sold: '81 380SL, '86 300E, '72 250C, '95 C220, 3 '84 280SL's '90 420SEL, '72 280SE, '73 280C, '78 280SE, '70 280SL, '77 450SL, '85 380SL, '87 560SL, '85 380SL, '72 350SL, '96 S500 Coupe
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  #6  
Old 07-14-2006, 12:33 AM
Archipeep
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: California
Posts: 30
Ugh...

Thanks Chuck. Although, in the past, the Haynes manuals have been a little disappointing. Especially for my 300d. Irony is that my last name is Haynes (no relation that I'm aware of). My fathers a mechanic, and as a kid I use to think it was so cool because my dad, the superhero that he is, most likely wrote all of those manuals in our garage. Of course, he didn't. Otherwise I'd be driving a gullwing I digress...

So, replaced all of the fuses (including those on the passenger side - saw no relays). Tried the windows. Nothing, except one switch when pressed made a high pitch clicking noise. But only once. Sure enough, it was the fuse blowing. Tried again, same thing, same switch. It would appear that I'm overloading the circuit. I desperately need a window switch diagram!!! Anybody find anything from any of the 114 and 115 from the same era's? I have to believe that generally, the window switch system didn't change much over the years.

Anyhow, my girlfriend is going to hate me this weekend because I'll probably spend it all troubleshooting only to find it was a simple wire out of place or something trivial like that. Oh well, she's locked into a 12 month lease with me here. (In Dr. Evil fashion) Mew Ooh Aah Aah Hah...
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  #7  
Old 07-14-2006, 08:15 AM
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Electric windows all work the same way. The switches have power and ground coming in to them. They switch the power and ground going out to the motor depending on which way the switch is depressed. This causes the motor to turn in the desired direction.

I have found that when a window won't move, assuming the power supply is good and fuse is intact, it is generally the switch. If a fuse is blowing, especially after a slight delay, then it is probably the motor. The wiring is pretty stout stuff, but it is worth checking where it goes into the doors.

As to finding a diagram, see if a local dealer or shop can help you. If you are an MBCA member, you can email George Murphy, the MBCA technical director at george_murphy@compuserve.com, and for a nominal fee, he will send you the wiring diagram if he has it. I suspect that it is in a MB supplement somewhere.

But you can probably figure it out by pulling a switch out of the console and poking around with a test light. You will find the power and ground coming in and the switched power and ground going out to the motor.
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Chuck Taylor
Falls Church VA
'66 200, '66 230SL, '96 SL500. Sold: '81 380SL, '86 300E, '72 250C, '95 C220, 3 '84 280SL's '90 420SEL, '72 280SE, '73 280C, '78 280SE, '70 280SL, '77 450SL, '85 380SL, '87 560SL, '85 380SL, '72 350SL, '96 S500 Coupe
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  #8  
Old 07-14-2006, 08:35 PM
Archipeep
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: California
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Thanks Chuck

Thanks Chuck. I'll be working on it tonight and Sunday.
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  #9  
Old 07-14-2006, 09:25 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 77
Power windows on 73 280C

I have the diagram on my ETM, if you can't find one I can scan and email it to you.
Let me know

Doug Quance
dougq@shaw.ca
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  #10  
Old 07-16-2006, 12:41 AM
djd djd is offline
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Don't know if your windows are the same as my 250S (W108)? (My 1967 has 5 rocker switches on the drivers door. Also the window motors are three wire. I think the later models - like yours - used two wire motors.) On the 250S, there is a relay mounted to the power window fuse block. The relay has to be energized for the windows to work. If yours are the three wire motors like mine, it's a complicated circuit...

The four fuses are fed +12VDC thru the relay attached to the fuse block. The relay is energized when the ignition is switched on OR by holding the Safety Switch (the 5th switch on the driver's door) in the UP position. With the ignition off, you can hold the Safety Switch up with one finger and at the same time, press one of the four window buttons. (Requires a bit of left hand manual dexterity. Probably helps if you can play a string instrument.)

Anyway - once the relay is energized, +12 VDC is sent to each of the four doors thru the fuses. At the door, this hot wire connects to one of the three wires on the motor. The other two motor wires are connected to ground thru either the local door switch or thru the driver's master panel switch. (One wire for UP and the other wire for DOWN.)

The Safety Switch has three positions:
Up (momentary) - Hold up to operate the windows with the ignition off as described above.
Middle (maintained) - Door switches are disabled by interupting the ground path. Only the master panel switches work.
Down (maintained) - Door switches and master switches both work.

If this sounds like your car, I can send a hand drawn wiring diagram..
Good luck...
Dennis
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  #11  
Old 07-16-2006, 01:01 AM
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: W. WI
Posts: 307
Check the console switches. Pop them out of the wood, use a small flat blade screwdriver (my small Swiss Army screwdriver works great) to pop off the rocker and look for a ball in the wrong place. Check for battery voltage on each switch. If OK move on to the doors. If not look upstream in the circuit.
Look at the flex hose / wirring to each door. This is where the wiring flexes with opening the doors.
Jump wire or hot wire the regulator motor by removing negative on your car battery, removing a door panel switch and using another battery, apply voltage.
If jumped window motor works and console switches read OK, the problem is in between console and door motor.
If you have to remove a door panel look at the nylon sliders and relube window slide. Also clean out the weeper plugs so the door will drain off water and inspect the vacuum lock gizmo.
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  #12  
Old 07-16-2006, 09:26 PM
Archipeep
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: California
Posts: 30
Awesome... Thanks for all the info.

So far, I checked the switches, and started to draw my own diagram of it all. Got as far as taking of the passenger door panel. When I replaced it, all of a sudden, the windows worked in the front, but the rears did not. I then found that the switches worked backwards... Pressing up made the window go down and vice versa. Okay, reversed the switches back. Then, rearranged the passenger side rear switch. Got it to roll down, then back up, but then the passenger front switch kept blowing fuses. Put the passenger rear window switch back and front window works fine. Decided to not take other panels apart as I was running out of time and light. Will have to try later this week. Thank you so much for all of your help. I'm still trying a few things that you all have mentioned.

Greg

P.S. Doug, if you don't mind emailing the diagram to me, I'd so owe you one! archipeep@gmail.com. Thank you!
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73' 280c
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  #13  
Old 07-26-2006, 12:22 PM
Archipeep
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: California
Posts: 30
wiring diagram

Found the wiring diagram for the car, no mention of power windows. Anyone out there have the diagram for the windows?

Or, does anyone want to pop out their switches and photograph the connections for me so that I can make sure the switches are connected correctly?

Thanks,
Greg
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  #14  
Old 07-26-2006, 05:26 PM
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Greg:

If you have access to the CD ROM you should look at the wiring diagram for the 74 model. I believe it will be much more informative and probably very near to accurate for your 73. The 73 diagram is pretty primitive by comparison. It is the same for the 107s; the 72/73 model wiring diagrams are real poor, but the 74 information is much more helpful.

I tried accessing the 114 manual hosted on braingears, but unfortunately there appears to be something wrong with their links to the PDF files so you get nothing. If you send me a PM, I may be able to send you a copy of the 74 diagram which shows the windows.

230/8
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  #15  
Old 07-26-2006, 05:46 PM
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I'm not sure if this will help, but I have the wiring diagram for a 1973 280SE in pdf form. It includes the power windows. The file size exceeds the allowed limit, so let me know and I can send it to you as an email attachment. Good luck.

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