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  #1  
Old 04-16-2007, 09:44 PM
KNanthrup's Avatar
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Can someone tell me about the '69 220D?

I owned an '86 300E for many years and fell in love with it. I've since moved on to a more economical commuter car, but I spotted a '69 220D that is probably going to go for dirt cheap and im thinking about taking the leap as a little project car. I think it's going to go for under $500 (and i think $500 is all i could afford to offer anyways).

The body is solid with no dents and the paint (all white) is decent. A few scratches here and there, and two small rust spots on the bottom rocker near the doors. The interior is pretty good... dash is perfect, seats are not torn or anything but the side leather pieces have been scuffed over the years. It has a sunroof, and column shift... not sure what other options to look for. It was a one-owner car that apparently just wasn't worth keeping to the owner any more. All parts, hubcaps, etc etc are still there.

Apparently it is mechanically solid but it smokes a good amount at idle from blowby so it's going to need rings at least. I've never torn in to a mercedes diesel so im not sure what kind of hassle I would be getting myself into if I decided to tackle a rebuild on it. I have done a handful of gasoline motors but thats it.

The appeal to me is just a classy car that I would like to get running good and clean up to drive around and perhaps sell later on down the road. I'd just like a little background info on these in terms of whether they were known as lemons or reliable or whatnot from anyone elses perspective.

Any input is appreciated. Thanks.


P.S. The Mileage on it is 160,000

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Last edited by KNanthrup; 04-16-2007 at 09:59 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-16-2007, 10:40 PM
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they are simple vehicles to work on, quite straightforward. I like driving my 220D. Had to put money into the suspension (shocks, brakes, etc.) but that is normal wear and tear stuff. Try running some diesel purge through it before tearing it apart. Good luck and have fun....
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84 300d (loaner to my sister) 189K
79 300SD (partswagen)
86 420SEL partswagen
70 220d (partswagen)
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  #3  
Old 04-16-2007, 10:51 PM
250 Coupe's Avatar
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Hey Kevin,
Kent Bergsma, AKA **************.com is up in Bellingham. He seems to know his diesels. I have a couple of his repair manuals and they are well written and informative.

Michael
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  #4  
Old 04-17-2007, 12:50 AM
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gimme a low-tech 240D
 
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Smoke = Black, White or Blue? Diagnosis of smoke is key, gotta stand behind the car while somebody else starts it. Hold a rag over the tailpipe and give it a sniff. Typically its unburnt fuel from incomplete startup combustion, smells like diesel fuel? Timing chains get stretched after 150k miles, injector pump timing adjust compensates for this. Adjusting IP timing yourself the smoke will go from Blue (too far advanced) to Black (too far retarded).

And dont be so quick to comdemn the rings, thats gasoline engine logic. Compression test should be at least 250 lbs per cylinder, over 300 is considered good. As new would have been 375 lbs per cyl. And are you sure about 160k miles? Unless its documented might as well assume 260k.

Rules of working on diesels are simple: Its all about fuel flow (filters, etc) and valve adjust, thats all. Dont even let a gasoline mechanic look at the car. They like to sell new sets of glow plugs, treatin em like spark plugs, and sets of injectors too. Again thats gasoline engine logic and does not apply. Diesel fuel acts as lubricant so they never need new injectors. And hardly ever need valve work too, couple of secrets to diesel longevity. And glow plugs have nothin to do with engine performance, just gets the motor cold started then it fires on its own.

Good luck making the mental adjustment to operating a diesel. Everything you know about gasoline engines is irrelevant. For example, fuel/air mixture does NOT apply. Intake manifold creates no vacuum, injectors shoot fuel direct into pre-combustion chambers. Then fuel combustion creates its own air gasses, hence zero vacuum at intake manifold.

Also an Italian tune-up might be helpful. Take it on the highway at long haul high speeds and blow it out. As much as 1/4" of unburnt carbon can form on piston crowns and valves if the engine's been lugged at low speeds, causing incomplete combustion.

And blowby is combustion pressure going into the crankcase, not the other way around. Blowby does not push oil past the rings into the combustion chamber, niether does it push oil past the valve seals. Typical blowby forces oil vapors through the valve cover breather tube past the air filter, often forming harmless oil puddles in the intake manifold.

(edit: But yeah the pre-'73 220D 4-spd is an excellent choice, arguably better than the later '74-76 240D for interior appointments, better seats and superior sheet metal.

Last edited by 300SDog; 04-17-2007 at 01:18 AM.
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  #5  
Old 04-17-2007, 04:35 AM
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Wow, 240Dog and the rest of you guys, I really appreciate the input. They are claiming 160,000 miles as a one-owner car but I will see if I can look further in to that. I guess my main concern was digging in to the motor. I am traditionally a gasoline engine man and as it sounds I will have to erase all presumed logic that I'm used to. So maybe it doesn't need rings... ill have to do a little more research into it... i was just assuming i would have to tear into the engine.

Any and all other input/feedback is appreciated as well. I know there are a lot of you guys out there who have owned one of these things.
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Old 04-17-2007, 03:02 PM
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I emailed the guy again today. He said that it was diagnosed by the diesel shop that it's at and they diagnosed blowby. So whatever that means in the diesel world... my take was that he was connecting the smoking problem with blowby. I would think this diesel shop would know what they're talking about... but who knows.
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  #7  
Old 04-17-2007, 03:18 PM
John Holmes III
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Low compression can cause white/blue smoke on a diesel, and blowby usually goes hand in had with low compression.

I would see how well the car starts after sitting all night, and once it is started I would loosen the oil filler cap and see just how much blowby there is. If it smokes like a train, the motor is worn out. Don't get me wrong, it will smoke, but it will be obvious if the blowby is bad.

Something to think about is that some '69 220D models had issues with bad motors from the factory, and since the cylinder wall taper is going to be pretty bad with the mileage the car has, doing a re-ring won't last or the rings are going to break if the taper is bad enough.

Pistons are very expensive, so some people re sleeve the cylinders and reuse the old pistons with new rings.

Do not believe the mileage claimed for a minute. I've been burned too many times, look at the car as a whole and forget the miles unless they have full documentation back to day one.
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Old 04-17-2007, 11:11 PM
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I second that. 1969 was a bad year for those engines. Cylinders will go egg shaped in less than 100k. I'm not sure if you can sleeve those engines. Unless it has had a short block or an engine swap, I would walk away from that one. If you can come up with a good engine from a 74~76 240D, that would make a great car, but those engines are not easy to find.
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  #9  
Old 04-18-2007, 01:24 AM
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gimme a low-tech 240D
 
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Yep, diesel 'builds are dicey at best. But 4cyl shortblocks are suprisingly cheap - somewhere around $2-3k USD from the factory i believe. And with initial cost of $500 it would be a bargain, considering the rest of the car (well maintained) oughta be good for another 300k miles or 15 yrs of service. None of the later w123 problems like crummy rear axles, weak upper control arms, sloppy steering box etc plagued the earlier 115's.

Meanwhile "blowby diagnosis" is meaningless..... ALL diesels produce blowby crankcase pressure buildup to some degree. It goes along with diesel characteristics. There aint no way blowby is accurately measurable, dont even bother tryin to chase it down. The fact the owner claims it was "blowby diagnosed" tells us nothing. Compression test professionally done will indicate what you've got. And like i said, 250lbs per cyl or less is considered crummy.

Otherwise, may i ask where the car is located? Seriously me the cobbler would be all over that car like a cheap suit.
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  #10  
Old 04-18-2007, 10:16 AM
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And if the body is solid, the price is cheap, and that engine has good oil-pressure and starts up quickly & easily from stone-cold, that may be all that matters. Drive it and enjoy.

Happy Motoring, Mark
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  #11  
Old 04-18-2007, 01:44 PM
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I have a '68 220 gasser. Mine appeared to be solid and well-kept, but in the three months since I've bought it, I've had to deal with one debilitating ailment after another after another. Of all the vintage cars I've had (roughly three dozen), this one has irritated my bowel the most.

And yet, I still can't stay mad at it. It's just such a cool little car.

If you can snag it for $500, you probably ought to. You can part it out and make a profit, if nothing else. Good luck!
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  #12  
Old 04-19-2007, 11:35 AM
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Ok guys so I ended up buying her for $500. I really don't know what I got myself in to. I have to go and pick it up in the next couple of days and I will survey the situation. Like I said i've never worked on diesels so this will be a whole new ball game for me. I'm a little worried... not having a lot of cash to be able to put in it and all. It was probably a mistake for me to buy it but I feel like I should feel it out and figure out the situation and if I can't tackle it then I could probably resell to even myself out.

That said, I will try to do a little diagnosing when I get it home and post up my findings. Next thing is probably to get her a good bath and see if I can't make that white paint shine up nice.

"oh my god, what did I get myself in to"

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