Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Vintage Mercedes Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 04-07-2009, 10:03 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 5,358
Well, it's been 4 months and the conversion is working like a champ!

Took the car on a run down to Tombstone the scenic route, with 4 adults and it got 18.5 MPG. It was a WINDY day and I fought crosswinds all day so I'd figure the car's MPG on the Interstate to be about in the low 20's range. Pulls to about 80 mph with no hesitation. It's got a bit of stutter between 80 and 85 but that could be the MS's rev limiter. It is only a M115 after all. 6000 rpm's might be right at that speed.

Took it up Mount Lemmon (I've been playing the tour guide gig all week!) and took a few pics. Now THIS was the performance workout test. The road goes from 2300 feet elevation to 9200 feet in 23 miles and none of it straight!

Took the stop at Ski Valley just to see the snow. Yeah, yeah, I know I need to replace the chrome strips on the grill. You never remember that detail stuff UNTIL you take pics to show off!
M115 T.B.I. conversion-mtl1.jpg

Had a sandwich at the Iron Door Lodge (the "claim jumper", roast beef, melted swiss cheese with an au jus dip, German potato salad and sweet red cabbage salad). Probably increased the weight of the passenger compartment by about 10 lbs!
M115 T.B.I. conversion-mtl2.jpg

Took a few breaks on the way down to enjoy the views and the smell of that pine forest. AAAhhhhhhh!
M115 T.B.I. conversion-mtl3.jpg

Now THESE are the kind of roads the Benz'es just LOVE! One hand on the wheel, the other arm pointing out the window depicting various landmarks, passengers looking over the sides of the roads at the 500 foot drops, smacking the back of my seat saying," we'll look at the sights, YOU look at the road!"
M115 T.B.I. conversion-mtl4.jpg

Here's the beauty of living in Tucson. 45 minutes after being in the snow (including a stop at the grocery store for "relaxing" beverages after the ride) this is what the thermometer was reading in my cabana area.
M115 T.B.I. conversion-mtl5.jpg

Car ran great! I was a little concerned with the stutter I had during the Tombstone trip but I believe it was indeed the rpm limiter because I had zero problems pulling up the mountain inclines. In fact I pulled probably 95% of the climb in 4th gear. I cruised the entire way at about 35 mph and only on the steepest switchbacks did I have to drop into 3rd gear.

The car started immediately every time we stopped. Much better than when it was carbed. I was a little concerned with the thinner air starts (9200 feet at the lodge) but the MS's on-board map sensor made the adjustment flawlessly.

I did notice a slight "gas" smell on the long, steep inclines while I was essentially just "coasting" using the engine as a brake but it could have just been some fumes from the "vent" tube which I haven't completely re-routed. It wasn't leaking anywhere and there was no effect on the engine. It was probably just a result of the fuel cycling through the fuel lines and forcing the fumes out the vent tube.

I did notice I am going to have to replace the valve seals. After a long downhill coast (4 or 5 miles) I came to a stop sign and I noticed some blue smoke upon acceleration. It cleared up as I went into fourth gear and never re-occurred. I figure the oil was pooling up at the number one cylinder and when I reached the flat ground it seeped down through the old stem seals. Hunh, I JUST replaced them in '96!


Last edited by Mike D; 04-07-2009 at 10:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 04-07-2009, 11:19 AM
todds's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 511
That's not bad at all man! I read 18.5mpg and was a little shocked because my finny with the stock m180 and the twin 2-barrels gets 19+ on the highway and I thought you'd surpass that for sure. Then I read why- mountain passes, S-curves, huge elevations, heavy winds, I'm sure my car would be way down in the mid teens on that trip. Sounds like you had a blast, it's really amazing that you totally re-engineered the fuel system better than stock in many ways. I'll bet you're right in that the regular tank vapor system might be a little thrown off with the FI pump throwing all that fuel back in there. Were the FI models any different in that regard?

I'd think that with your engine working hard in the mountains all day and pulling most likely ridiculous vacuum on an abnormally long downgrade that a little puff of blue isn't all that bad. Maybe it was just the unusual circumstances.
__________________
___
/<>/>/>
1967 230S automatic
Boston, MA
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 08-13-2009, 04:33 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Battle Ground, WA
Posts: 576
Hi Mike,
I have a '75 280C which is the appearance twin to your car, but with the 110 engine. My plans are to install a GM TBI setup on the car, but I will use the GM TBI unit from an astrovan 4.3 engine, and all the stock pieces - I think the inline six can handle the larger TBI unit. When I first got my car it had the vacuum assist pump mounted at the front of the engine, and whenever I went down a long hill the pump would catch engine oil, and the oil would then go through a hole in the diaghram and produce lots of blue smoke when I got to the bottom of the hill and stepped on the gas. I'm talking CLOUDS of smoke! I eliminated the problem by removing the vacuum assist pump and sealing the hole with a plate. The engine produces plenty of vacuum to run the brakes, locks, etc. on it's own without the need of the pump.
Congrats on a successful conversion!
__________________
Richard Wooldridge
'01 ML320
'82 300D 4.3L V6/T700R4 conversion
'82 380SL, '86 560SL engine/trans. installed
'79 450SL, digital servo update
'75 280C
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 08-13-2009, 06:33 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 5,358
Richard,

Why don't you start a new thread on the M110 conversion and I'll fill you in with all the stuff I've come up so far on the M110? That way, people wanting to convert their M110's won't have to read through all my prattle regarding what I had to do to the M115. A lot of it is relevant but most of it isn't.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 03-12-2010, 03:35 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 310
Smile Thanks

My, my! That whole thing is a teaching event of the best kind. I've printed it all out for reference. My finny 230 needs the treatment as well as my 78 230 and , mostly, the 75 280 with M110 AND THE DREADED Solex 4-barrell. I would hope the replacement of the Solex would bring it up to 280 injected performance---or better.

Thank you for the work in reporting. It wil be the inspiration necessary to make some of us take the plunge. I'll be eagerly waiting for the M110 version--if it is done.

sparky
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 07-25-2015, 11:06 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 5,358
Next step:

Crank trigger and 36-1 toothed wheel.

I'd been having some random issues with the Hot-Spark electronic ignition interference and the Megasquirt's ECU. Sometimes the tachometer reading to the controller would just go crazy and show 16K+. Needless to say this caused havoc with the fueling.

Tried everything I could think of and all the "fixes" from the web. Resistors, diodes, condensers, filters, power settings, distributor caps, rotors, re-work the grounds/power feeds, Pertronix ignition unit, voltage regulator, plug wires and routing, you name it. Never solved the problem.

Decided to finally go to a trigger wheel Hall-effect pickup. Wish I'd done it to start with.

The deep fan belt pulleys used by Mercedes make it a bit awkward to simply use spacers and mount the trigger wheel on the front of the crank shaft. I didn't care for making a long bracket and mounting the sensor in the air stream of the cooling fan. Long wires, air flow, water being thrown by the fan all seem to lead to problems.

Time for some creative thinking. The pulleys are a bell shape and there is adequate room between the first pulley edge and the front of the crank dampener. The pulleys are held flush to the dampener by three bolts. There are six threaded holes in the dampener so you have some leeway in the mounting. This comes into play later.

I designed my own wheel and had it made at a local shop but they are available from :

36-1 Trigger Wheel - Miller's Mule

I made a 5" wheel but a 6" wheel would work.

Dimension for the center bore is 90MM.

The wheel is made from 3MM plate stock (1/8" mild steel). It must be ferrous so don't even think about aluminum or stainless steel. Yes, some stainless has ferrous qualities but why tempt fate?

Photos and further steps are upcoming.
__________________
“Whatever story you're telling, it will be more interesting if, at the end you add, "and then everything burst into flames.”
― Brian P. Cleary, You Oughta Know By Now
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 07-25-2015, 05:25 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: brisbane,Qld.Australia
Posts: 2,066
I hope it doesn't take another 6 years to update with pictures....
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 07-25-2015, 05:33 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 5,358
Hey Ron, shouldn't you be out rounding up some wallabies or something instead of hanging around the internet forums?

Pictures are on their way. Finally replaced my old digital camera. Got a lot of catching up to do.
__________________
“Whatever story you're telling, it will be more interesting if, at the end you add, "and then everything burst into flames.”
― Brian P. Cleary, You Oughta Know By Now
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 07-25-2015, 08:57 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 5,358
Top view of the belt pulley.

M115 T.B.I. conversion-pulleytop.jpg

Side view of the pulley. Ignore the toothed wheel which I've already mounted. We'll get back to it. You see the problem? If I wanted to mount a trigger wheel on the front then it'd be sticking out 4.25 inches (108MM for you enlightened folks). That's a loong way to be extending a bracket which could be whipping around.

M115 T.B.I. conversion-problem1.jpg

The good thing is the pulley separates. This makes it a lot easier to work with.

M115 T.B.I. conversion-problem2.jpg


M115 T.B.I. conversion-pulley4.jpg

The pulley is attached to the dampener by the three bolts. The dampener retaining bolt does NOT need to be removed.

M115 T.B.I. conversion-center.jpg
__________________
“Whatever story you're telling, it will be more interesting if, at the end you add, "and then everything burst into flames.”
― Brian P. Cleary, You Oughta Know By Now

Last edited by Mike D; 07-25-2015 at 09:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 07-25-2015, 10:42 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 5,358
Bring the engine to TDC using the timing marks if you haven't already.

The next step seems counter-intuitive but it's critical for your sanity. Mount the Hall effect trigger in your desired location. I've seen the M115 mounted in four or five different ways depending on year, accessories and body styles. My M115 is mounted in a 1971 250C W114. I am lucky enough to have the front stabilizer plate which makes for a good mount.

Mount it loosely to allow for adjustment.

M115 T.B.I. conversion-bracketmount.jpg

Slip the crank trigger ring onto the back side of the pulley. Do NOT secure the ring!!! Try to get it as even as you can. Thus is not a final fitment so it isn't critical. I used a bit of melted wax to hold it into place. Putty would work as well.

M115 T.B.I. conversion-pulleyback.jpg

Here's the confusing part. Mount the pulley/ring assembly to the crankshaft. Just snug the bolts. Don't torque them down. This is an initial fit.

Do your adjustments to the sensor mounting bracket. They call for a 2MM clearance between the gear and sensor. I'd start with 5MM (3/16" apx.) and adjust for final later. Try to get the sensor centered over the gear as close as possible.

M115 T.B.I. conversion-triggerpulleybracket.jpg

You want the sensor to be in the middle of the tooth which is the ninth tooth PAST the missing tooth on the 36-1 ring gear. Undo the three bolts (if you put them all back in place) Locate the missing tooth. Count 9 teeth counter clockwise. Rotate the pulley assembly so the selected tooth is centered on the sensor.

If you're lucky three of the SIX (I told you we'd get back to them) holes in the dampener will line up with the existing THREE holes in the pulley. You've got some wiggle room, half a tooth or so but it's better to be exact. If not, then install the bolts in the closest matching hole and twist the gear to the proper position. MARK that tooth and it's corresponding position on the pulley. I used a scratch awl the SECOND time I moved the pulley. Magic marker doesn't last when you use a solvent to remove the wax ()

Your choice on how to secure the gear. I used epoxy but there's no reason you couldn't tack or spot weld it. I wouldn't run a bead all around because of the chance of warping. Try to evenly distribute the weld around the circumference.

I used washers as spacers to ensure the ring gear was parallel with the pulley. If you've got a turntable or know someone who does this is an excellent way to check the straightness of your gear.

Center the pulley on the turntable and spin 'er up! You'll be able to see any wobble. Using wax allows you to get the placement just right. You could just take it to a machine shop and have them do it.

Here's the bracket alignment with the alternator/water pump belt in place.

M115 T.B.I. conversion-bracket.jpg

Shot from the left side, no belts but all pulleys in place. Gets kind of crowded down there and that's with my use of an electric fan. Imagine adding a fan into the mix and you see why I don't want to use a trigger wheel mounted in front of the pulleys

M115 T.B.I. conversion-left.jpg
__________________
“Whatever story you're telling, it will be more interesting if, at the end you add, "and then everything burst into flames.”
― Brian P. Cleary, You Oughta Know By Now

Last edited by Mike D; 07-26-2015 at 06:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 07-26-2015, 12:02 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: brisbane,Qld.Australia
Posts: 2,066
On my 6.3 I have the pickup out on a long(ish) bracket so i can reach the wheel which is on the outside (front ) edge of the crank pulley. It's not ideal but the damper ring is so big there was no where else to fit it. It has worked well since 2007 . i have been sort of thinking about modifying it to tidy things up a bit.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 07-26-2015, 07:08 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 5,358
Same problem with my M110. Resolving that in a different fashion. I'll post it over on my M110 thread.
__________________
“Whatever story you're telling, it will be more interesting if, at the end you add, "and then everything burst into flames.”
― Brian P. Cleary, You Oughta Know By Now
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 12-05-2015, 10:34 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 5,358
6 years after the install and the beast finally let me down. Started having all kinds of weird idling/running problems. Tracked it down to a bad fuel injector. $51 for the injector (Standard Motor Products #339 TJ14T) and a bit of fussing about with the tuning later it's back on the road. Didn't need to adjust the tuning but I did it anyway 'cause I could!

I believe this was the original injector from the initial TBI set-up. It wasn't the original Delco part but I have no idea when it was previously replaced. The TBI unit was from a 1990 Astrovan with well over 300,000 miles on the odometer. I'm sure of the mileage because it was my old sales van and it got its wheels run off it.
__________________
“Whatever story you're telling, it will be more interesting if, at the end you add, "and then everything burst into flames.”
― Brian P. Cleary, You Oughta Know By Now
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 12-05-2015, 03:42 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: brisbane,Qld.Australia
Posts: 2,066
It is simpler that trying to sort out a carb isn't it.. ?
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 03-18-2016, 11:38 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 5,358
Changing over to spark control. Using EDIS (wasted spark) since it is the easiest way and also because my MS2 ECU does not support sequential spark control. The MS3 does or I could add a daughter board to the existing ECU but I doubt I'd see enough of a gain to justify it.

The IGN-4 unit from DIYAUTOTUNE.

M115 T.B.I. conversion-ign-4-600x600.jpg

Looking for a place for the coil mount. Removing the old plug wire retainers left this area clear. Hmm, I wonder?

M115 T.B.I. conversion-coilmount1.jpg

Huzzah! Perfect fit! That's just waaay too easy!

M115 T.B.I. conversion-coilmount2.jpg

The only drawback to this location is the fact the connector for the coil wiring is on top. Ah well, a bit of butyl rubber sealant will make it water resistant. Can't reverse the mount because it is a 3 bolt mount. 2 holes on top and one centrally on the bottom. A couple of nylon washers on the top, a strip of nylon along the bottom and a dab of threadlocker blue completes the mounting.

M115 T.B.I. conversion-coilmount3.jpg

Had to add a coil driver to the Megasquirt for the additional coil. Used a BIP373 coil driver ($8 from DIYAUTOTUNE), did a little bit of soldering and it's ready for the wiring.

M115 T.B.I. conversion-msiiv3.0_coil.jpg

The orange wires are for the new coil. The yellow wires are from a previous mod to the unit.

This is for a 4 cylinder mod. The pictured driver will be firing cylinders 2 and 3 and the existing mounted driver (opposite side of the board, not shown) will fire #1 and 4.

Firing order on the M115 is 1-3-4-2. So, coil A will fire 1 & 4 and coil B fires 2 & 3.

If this were for a 6 cylinder there would be another driver installed and for a V-8 there would be a total of 4 coil drivers.

__________________
“Whatever story you're telling, it will be more interesting if, at the end you add, "and then everything burst into flames.”
― Brian P. Cleary, You Oughta Know By Now
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page