Good day.

My parents had a 1961 220S and a 1959 190 (?) back when I was a teen. Great cars, which I enjoyed driving soon after I got my license. Six cylinder, standard, and *comfortable*.

Now that I'm nearing retirement, I'd like to re-live that old dream. The mission: drive an older MB cross country, taking a month or two, visiting family, friends, and former students.

As a retired teacher I won't have piles of money; in addition, I don't see myself keeping the MB forever, as I want the car for long drives but not for driving to WalMart and the dentist! But a coast to coast drive in a big heavy car, with some good memories thrown in - sounds good to me.

As I haven't had an MB for over 40 years, I don't have a clue about the practicality and maintenance requirements for an older MB these days.

So - what do you folks think of this idea: looking around for a 1960s or 1970s six cylinder sedan, fixing it up (?), driving it for a year, then selling it.

Old guy's brainless fantasy? If it's do-able, and merchanic support can be found across the country ... what model and years would you suggest? I've heard some good things about the W108.

Thanks all. The adventure begins.
Tom in Connecticut

That's a nice project, and Mercedes is definitely the brand to go for: a lot of car for the money, reliable, with parts available and/or easy to find, especially for the 108s. If you are in the DC area, you could have a look at this car: Nice W108 4.5 for sale in DC it would take you for your trip, and you would still sell it around the same price after that.

Tom,Join the mercedes club .There are lots of rescue services listed along with discounts for parts.
Then BUY the MOST EXPENSIVE CAR YOU CAN AFFORD.
That way you will enjoy your trip without the worry of breaking down.

Two points:

1: Be prepared to spend at the top of the market for the model you choose.

2: Select a model modern enough to keep up with traffic.


Advice:

For economy, and resale, look at 82-85 300D's. Modern and fast enough to keep up with traffic, incredible reliability, and great resale potential when you are finished. ( I drove my 300D from Arizona to Virginia a few years ago, 100% dead reliable, 27mpg, and extremely pleasurable.)

For a more vintage look, consider the W108 280SE 4.5's. Looks more like your parent's cars, with a more modern driveline.

What is your budget? It would help to know that to zero in on what is most suitable.

Jim

__________________
14 E250 BlueTEC black. 45k miles
95 E320 Cabriolet Emerald green 66k miles
94 E320 Cabriolet Emerald green 152k miles
85 300TD 4 spd man, euro bumpers and lights, 15" Pentas dark blue 274k miles

Hi Tom;
I was in a similar situation when growing up except I learned on VW's and a 64 Corvair. There was the proverbial Mercedes-my father had a 180 in the garage for a never-finished resto. I wanted an MB when I was in my 20's and purchased and drove a 220sb for several years. In adulthood I have owned a couple of 240's which were great fun and reliable as well but I always wanted another gasser so am currently working on a 280se.
Your thought process is sound. I would take time to consider just what you want out of the MB you intend to buy after your cross-country trip because you may just find that driving the car and working on the car and being a part of this forum is a most worthwhile and rewarding part of having extra time on your hands. Look at your situation holistically.
All of the above comments ring true in my opinion; however, I would be more inclined toward an 82-85 300D as suggested if your intention is to just drive, enjoy and then sell. You wouldn't have to put much money in and if you had a catastropic failure, you could just shop around for another in the town closest to the next 300!
Best of luck and keep us posted- a cross country trip is something I have in my mind for my old girl in the garage presently waiting on a caliper re-build.

Not wanting to start the often-inevitable forum debate ...

I've noticed many folks referring to the 300D as well as the W108 series.

My purchase budget will be $5000, including shipping if necessary. But if it won't drive to Connecticut, I'll probably just walk on by. No electronics, no power assists, standard four speed.

I wondered if you'd all share your thoughts on comparing the 300D to the 280SEL, for example. I've never owned or driven a diesel, but some folks seem to prefer it for my "mission" - the cross country drive.

Is the diesel engine much more reliable than the gasoline six? Or ...?

Thanks.
Tom

They will drive very similarly. Firm ride, excellent steering and handling, excellent braking action.

The diesel will make more noise, smell and smoke but will use half the fuel more or less overall. The market for resale on diesels is probably stronger too once you tire of it and wish to turn the car back into cash.

The gassers are incredibly durable too though and will have more power and be generally quieter and have more options typically for the same years.

Sounds like fun, can I come along?

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

There's something very appealing to each of the models that comes along from the 50s out to the late 80s (and even the 90s I'm told).

The S class cars of the 60s are something distinct and of a class by themselves (which is what appeals to me so). However, even the "lesser cars" w/o that "S" in the badge still have a great appeal.

You mention being a bit budget concious, but you didn't mention your level of technical skill. A guy that doesn't have two nickles to rub together, but knows how to jerry rig the ignition on the side of the road is far better off than the person that doesn't know that "710" is just oil written upside-down, but has AAA on the cell-phone's speed-dial.

If you're interested, I know of very good condition 1963 190 (or is a 190D, I forget) in NJ. It's white with a cloth interior and you can drive it coast to coast if you like. It's also in your budget with a few meals to spare.

-CTH

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http://www.111lakeside.com/

I've driven my '83 300D back and forth between Nevada and Georgia a couple of times. It's always been reliable, comfortable, and reasonably fuel efficient (25-29 mpg on the highway).

That much being said, if I was going to get a five thousand dollar Benz strictly for cross-country driving, I'd probably go with a 116 or 126 300SD.

If you're dead set on a manual transmission, that limits your options considerably, since all the turbodiesels (except the '87 190D) and V8 engines were sold with slushbuckets in this country. There are a few manual 116 280 S-class cars around, and probably some manual six-cylinder 108's.

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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 400,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 22,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.

Skippy - thanks for bringing up the auto transmission.

I really have nothing against automatic, but I've always had standard. Always figured standard was less subject to problems, and easier and cheaper to repair. Plus, living in a snowy area (southern New England), getting the wheels un-stuck is easy to me with a manual shift.

If the clutch goes out, you can usually shift anyway to get to safety. Not sure about moving the car if the automatic goes out.

That said, what's the MB reliability for the automatic in those models we're talking about?

Thanks.
Tom

The late 60's and early 70's K4A025 and K4C025 are junk IMNSHO. The 722.1 was a lot better, and the 722.2 is about as reliable of an automatic as you can find. The 722.1 was used in the mid to late 70's. The 722.2 replaced it, but I'm not sure what year the change was made.

__________________
Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 400,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 22,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.

Thanks gentlemen.

I'm getting the impression that the W108 series, or the early 1980s 300D or early 1970s 280SE may be the target area?

Four speed or automatic sound equally recommended. Diesel seems to be edging out gasoline; six (or five) practical but not as peppy as an 8.

Edit: and the 722.2 is the *desirable* auto transmission.

Keeping in mind that about half the traveling would be interstate; the rest two lane blacktop and country roads.

Any further thoughts to help me narrow the field? Frankly, there are so many series/displacements out there I feel overwhelmed. But your suggestions on narrowing down the target to what's possible within my $5K budget are extremely helpful.

Just a thought: the 1972 280SE?



There was a 4.5 engine available; but I don't know if that's overkill for my purposes. Or perhaps it's more available and has a better resale value?

I've got a year to explore all this, but getting advice from those with knowledge and experience is worth its weight in gold.

Thanks.
Tom
PS - the more I explore all this, the more I'm thinking I may keep the car much longer than one year. You knew I was going to think that eventually, didn't you?

Nice thing about those extra two cylinders is when you're doing 65 and decide you'd rather be doing 75. It's just a matter of pushing a bit harder on the pedal and you're there.

You can do it in the diesel, it just takes a bit longer.

I'd recommend you have the car in hand and driving around a month or more before you head out on any lengthy trip. Get used to her and let her get used to you.

-CTH

__________________
- cth350@gmail.com
http://www.111lakeside.com/

As CTH recommends, it is always better to buy the car a while before your trip, so that you can get used to it and sort out all the necessary so that you feel confident with it.

I understand your wish for a manual and no power steering etc. I guess the rationale is that the less sophistication, the lower the risk for something to go wrong. Then you should go for a BMW 2002: simple, reliable, parts available and keeps up with traffic. MBs of that simplicity will be models of the 50s or early 60s. They may not keep up that easily with traffic, and cars in sufficiently good condition for your purpose will exeed your budget.

Clearly, the more recent the car, the more reliable it will be: W107s, W116s; or even W126s. But their design part away from what you describe in your first post. If you stick to Mercedes with an older design, within your budget, I believe you have two options:

1. the W108. The advice is to get a very good example, and you will recover your money when you sell it. But this may be well over 5000 usd. For 5000 usd you won't have a perfect car. You should then give the priority to a good driver, regularly and properly maintained, even if the body is not perfect. I believe the 4.5 is the best option for the money, especially for long distance trip.

2. the W114/115. They are smaller, simpler, 4 or 6 cylinders, they retain the older design and the later models are technically quite modern.

Thanks again gents. Just to clarify, I'm not even planning to purchase until early next year, specifically because I want to have time to explore what models are recommended and available. Then after purchase, take 3-6 months checking it out and tweaking whatever is needed for safety and reliability. After that, the driving adventure begins!

By the way, I'm certainly no mechanic, but I've learned a lot from bringing my 1959 TR3 back to being a reliable daily driver.

http://s224.photobucket.com/albums/dd23/freemangarden/TR3A%20arrival%2022007/?albumview=grid

Can I pull a transmission or rebuild an engine? Nope - no experience, no "garage-mahal", and no heavy tools. But all parts replacement, wiring, gauges, brakes, valves, water pump, starter, major tuneups, etc., have been well within my "scope".

As my mechanic neighbor told me, "if you want to drive a reliable two seater, buy a Miata." But it ain't the same thing. Getting my hands dirty and pulling the TR back together, and now driving it with a hint of pride - now that's an enjoyable accomplishment.

Tom