What 4 manual gearbox is this? V8?

[GGR]

Hi all,

there was a 4 manual gearbox for sale on ebay, mated with a V8 clutchbell. The seller doesn't know what car it came out from and I was not able to identify the gearbox on EPC with the part numbers he gave me: the part number cast into the right side of the trans housing is 309 261 0101, and is the only part number on the trans case, except for a large painted 116. The machined pad below the shifter cover is blank, leading the seller to believe this is a replacement case. The main case is in a light green primer color. Other numbers are front cover: 117 261 0918, rear cover: 115 261 2620, shifter cover: 309 261 0019.

I looked on EPC and the part numbers I found for the V8 4 manual transmission are the following:
A 117 260 36 01 for the W108/109/111 Chassis;
A 117 260 42 01 for the W107/116 Chassis.

Any idea of what that gearbox is, and to what vehicle it belongs?

[sjefke]

Have you tried doing a part search on the 309 part in the EPC? If it is at all a real part number, the EPC will tell you on what models is was carried.

I can check later (tomorrow) the spare I have in my basement to see what its numbers are. My spare one is also from a later (non-W111) car and I vaguely also recall a weird part number on it. The bellhousing of the Ebay one is V8 (deep pronounced ribs) and it has the V8 release lever. In general, I would say that if it has the V8 bellhousing (which is uncommon) it is likely that the transmission itself is also V8. I don't think somebody would find a bellhousing readily without the box attached to it.

FYI, there is also one for sale on Ebay Germany (www.ebay.de) for 200 Euro.

And I think some other forum member picked one up from an scrap yard recently.

They do pop up once in a while. (CTH alone has three, but no flywheel, I think)

Bert

[GGR]

Well, I did not figure out yet how to do a search on EPC starting with a part number. I'm only able to select a vehicle type and then see what fits on it. I've tried to use it the other way round, but I didn't figure out how to do it. I'm sure it's very easy, if you know, tell me.

The seller ran the number but EPC didn't take that number.

[tompaah7503]

I typed the casing number into Google and it finds an earlier post by sjefke,
V8 Stick Shift Models?
So apparently the transmission is from a W116 350SEL(?)..

[sjefke]

Yes, the number sounded familiar and is what I have on my spare. See my earlier post. I bought a spare supposedly from a 1974 W116 450SEL. Bellhousing was identical (117 251 2501) to my orginal transmission (I had it out of the car to change release bearing), so are casings, except for part numbers. My original one has casing number part number 1172611201 & side cover no. 1172610419, whereas spare left one has casing number part number 3092610101 and cover number 3092610019. According to EPC, bellhousing was also used on W116.028/029 W116 350SE and 350SEL. My original G76/27A has a serial no. 000201. The spare has serial no. 017479.

To give you a price point, I bought mine from Ebay for $250 incl shipping from a MB scrap yard (forgot the name, somewhere up in the North-East).

Bert

[GGR]

Thanks! That was a really good deal for you.

I have a question about the trans shaft in three pieces: Does that mean there are two "central" bearings? I had a 6.3 some years back. This was a powerful car with a long wheel base, so the propshaft was quite long. I think it was only in two pieces. So I don't understand the logic for having three pieces on the 3.5 Coupe?

[Tony H]

The 111 3.5 coupe man trans does have a 3 piece drive shaft with 2 center bearings and 3 U joints.

[sjefke]

There is a good drawing in the workshop manual of the 3 and 2 piece driveshaft. I'll try to post it this evening. Unfortunately, it does not give dimensions so I do not know the exact difference in length.

Bert

[sjefke]

Drawing of 2 and 3 piece driveshaft attached from Section 41-1 of workshop/service manual for 108-113 cars starting 1968.

Just to confirm, my car also has a 3 piece shaft like Tony's.

GGR, given that your car is a 220 model, all bets are off whether the motor mounts for the 3.5 engine are exactly in the same place as the original 3.5 coupes. Dependent on the different in transmission lengths, you may be able to stretch the 2 piece shaft to fit a manual transmission. It's a long shot, but I would ask the experts how much play is in the driveshaft.

Bert

[cth350]

The front axle beam is identical across the 108, 109, 110 and 111 cars. The placement of the axle is different on the 109.018 (the 6.3) by a few CM.

The placement of the transmission support changes based on the motor/trans combination. Anybody contemplating an auto/manual swap should not preserve the support that comes with the transmission, since the bolt positions vary from plate to plate.

-CTH
PS. anybody keenly interested in this topic should take a gander at the FS thread I put in the parts column for an important question about the M116 flywheel.

[GGR]

Bert,

thanks for the scan. Regarding my car, everything came from the 3.5 Coupe: Front axle, engine, gearbox, shaft and rear axle. But I wonder If I have the brackets to fix the two "center bearings".

I spent sometime on EPC and discovered that the 280 4.5 SEL came with a 2 pieces propshaft. The rear part is the same as on the SE, while the part number for the front one is different. It must be longer. I wonder if this would be the solution for the manual conversion. Does anyone know how much longer the SEL are, and how much shorter the manual G27/76 trans is compared to the 3 speed auto mounted on the 4.5s?

[Tony H]

Your car will not have the 2 mounts for the center bearings unless it specifically came with a 3 piece driveshaft. In that way the body is specific to the transmission.
You might be able to cut some mounts out of donor cars and weld them in but the placement is critical to driveshaft geometry. They do have small slots that allow some adjustment. I happen to have my car dissasembled and on a stand at the moment so I might be able to help with pictures or measurements.
Tony

[GGR]

Thanks Tony. Yes, some pictures and measurements would help. The other challenge is to find a 3 piece driveshaft. Contraritly to what I thought 6.3s came with a three pieces driveshaft. This may be easier to find than a specific 3.5 Coupe or w108 sedan driveshaft. I could then shorten as necessary.

[Tony H]

Hi GGR,
I measured the mounts from the ledge at the rear end of the drive shaft tunnel. That is the only reference point I could find and it is probably meaningless because it might be different on your car. This is to the center of the mount. Excuse the crud and grime. I have not begun on the bottom of my car yet. Picture taken from the rear looking foward.
Ist 11 1/16"
2nd 28 13/16

It looks like it would be very difficult to install the mounts without major cutting and welding. Probably easier to have a custom drive shaft built.

[GGR]

Thanks Tony. Indeed, given the work involved and the skills required, it will be simpler and cheaper to lenghten the front end of my driveshaft. Thanks again for the effort.