1964 300 S - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ken juul · #1 12-05-2009, 01:25 PM

A friend is thinking about buying one. From what I can tell it was originally a european model, imported by the owner in 2002. It's been parked outside since then, floor and rocker panels are supposed to be shot. I cannot find any information on a 300S model from that year. Anybody have an idea what the model number is? I think I can replace the floors without much trouble, are rocker panels and other major body parts still available?

Is my friend buying into a bottom less money pit?

tonkovich · #2 12-06-2009, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken juul

A friend is thinking about buying one. From what I can tell it was originally a european model, imported by the owner in 2002. It's been parked outside since then, floor and rocker panels are supposed to be shot. I cannot find any information on a 300S model from that year. Anybody have an idea what the model number is? I think I can replace the floors without much trouble, are rocker panels and other major body parts still available?

Is my friend buying into a bottom less money pit?

i think it's a w112. top of the line model, either se or se (l, for lang - i.e. long wheelbase) sedan of coupe or cabriolet. (so its fuel injection - bosch? )

others will chime in with more info (and some corrections?)

(a personal favorite, especially the coupe/cabrio)

(don't think they made a lot of them - but may be some similarities to other models, parts wise?)

cth350 · #3 12-06-2009, 12:55 AM

The 300 line of cars were all fuel injected. You should find a intake pipe with a throttle at the end of it with lots of pipes for fuel and linkages to control things.

These are unibody cars. Floors and rockers are the structural strength of the car (along with the roof and transmission tunnel).

You describe a car that needs like 200 hours or more of work to make it water tight and look like it was worth spending thta money.

However, they are indeed rare birds, worth keeping around when salvagable and worth passing on as a parts car when they are past the point of no return.

If you're paying somebody to do the body restoration, it's not worth it. If you friend welds and knows how to deal with an old car, then it's a worthy thing to resurrect a vintage benz.

-CTH

ja17 · #4 12-06-2009, 01:09 AM

Hello,

Yes Chuck is correct. The 300 series during this time were all fuel injected. So it is most likely a 300SE or possibly someone is mistaken and it could be a 220S.

300SEs of the era also had air suspension. In this case the car would most likely be laying on its bellypans with the suspension deflated.

tonkovich · #5 12-09-2009, 11:00 AM

i searched online and got an education at 300se.org

these cars make 6.3's look like a cakewalk.

not for the faint of heart (or wallet)

ken juul · #6 12-13-2009, 03:33 PM

VIN # is 112021 10 007017
Motor# is 189 189 984-0-0000-86
300 SE/C
Fuel injected straight 6 with manual trans.

There is way too much work to be done on this car for me to tackle it for my friend. The car is for sale as is. It is located in the NE, don't know where exactly, close to the coast. The owner has the history, it was totally rebuilt in 1994. Brought to the US and parked outside unused since then.

If you are interested email or PM me with your email address and I can forward pictures/contact info. No desire to be a middleman, just passing info on.

bwostosh · #7 12-13-2009, 04:05 PM

Post us the info.

Someone wants it somewhere for the right (market) price even for parts alone.
For instance,
there is a rust free w111 coupe basic body shell in Arizona for a rebuild project.

It's worth it at a certain price.

ken juul · #8 12-13-2009, 04:19 PM

An email from the owner: The car was completely restored in 94'. I only drove it a little bit after that as I also had a 1965 230 SL which I drove most of the time, until I left France during the summer of 95. From that time on the car was kept in a garage in Switzerland. I brought it over here during the summer of 2002, which turned out to be a big mistake as it was out doors out here near the ocean and it was very hard on it.
Actually there's not that much rust on the body, but the underneath floor panels are completely rotten, though the frame is fine. When i stopped driving it, it was mechanically perfect except for one windshield wiper, which was frozen. I put a battery in it and it started today within 15 seconds and the engine ran perfectly. As you can see from the photo, the suspension, which is pneumatic "air suspension" goes down in front when it is not being run regularly.
When it was running today it came right up and was high after 5 minutes; so there is no problem with the suspension. Let me tell you a little more about the car mechanically. The only thing I changed on the car after it came here was the exhaust system, (muffler and tail pipe all the way to the manifold). It is stainless steel, so should be fine. The motor was rebuilt in France, from the bottom up), by expert Masserati mechanics at a cost of close to $7,000. It has less than 22,000 miles on it since then. At the same time I also rebuilt the entire 4 speed manual transmission, also from the bottom up, (another $2,000). The engine fuel injection ($2,000) was purchased brand new at the same time too, and the clutch was also replaced completely, ($1800). The suspension has been extensively repaired, and all the pressure valves changed, also costing about $6,000; and was working perfectly when I stopped driving it three years ago. The list also includes complete new brakes, and an approximate add'l $5K for general maintenance and repairs.
The body too was completely restored and painted, and that was when I decided to make it two tone. That cost $8,000 at the time, but as you can see, EVERYTHING metal below the rocker panels needs to be re-done, as well at most of the interior leather (but not all, some of the interior can just be refurbished, especially in back)? Most of the rust above the rocker panels is just surface rust under the paint and doesn't need any repair, just sanding and cleaning. I got it started yesterday and the motor was fine and running perfectly, but I don't want to run it too much as there are two gas line leaks where it is pressurized and it is dangerous to run it without changing those! I can tell you that when I stopped driving it, it was running perfectly and VERY TIGHT, with almost no rattles or looseness. Now a lot of the rubber will probably have to be changed too, but this is a really good car and if you do it right you will have a great time driving it! By the way, it is a BIG six cylinder engine and there were VERY FEW of the 300 series made, and there are very few left. You see lots of 220's and there were over 25,000 3.5 series, but these with the European instruments and 4 speed on the floor are rare! And the car is POWERFUL, with that 4 speed there is a lot of torque!

I have pictures but no way to post if you are interested email me.

thebenzbar · #9 12-13-2009, 05:16 PM

M189...same engine as in the Gullwing, which translates to $$$$$ for nearly everything about it. And the W112 300SE is indeed a rare gem, but will need a six-figure commitment for everything to be restored to concours standards (if that's the aspiration). Other than that, it will still take tens of thousands for the entire car to be properly & correctly revived. On that note, how much is the seller asking??

ja17 · #10 12-13-2009, 07:36 PM

Hello,

The engine is similar to that in the gullwing, but very different. The gullwing had a completely different injection system with direct injection into the block and a unique injection pump. The engine block in the gullwing and later roadsters had the injectors mounted in the block while the other 300 series cars had the port type injection with the injectors mounted on the intake manifolds. Most other engine parts are slightly or completely different.

These engines are definately of the same family and have many similarities. Yes, parts for either engine are unique and quite expensive!

tonkovich · #11 12-14-2009, 01:36 AM

dumb question here:

its a coupe?

thebenzbar · #12 12-14-2009, 02:05 AM

Not a dumb question, actually a good one... and yes, it's a coupe.

112021 10 007017 translates to:
112.021 = 300SE Coupe
10 = LH Drive and Standard transmission
007017 = serial production no. (early build)

tonkovich · #13 12-14-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebenzbar

Not a dumb question, actually a good one... and yes, it's a coupe.

112021 10 007017 translates to:
112.021 = 300SE Coupe
10 = LH Drive and Standard transmission
007017 = serial production no. (early build)

well, thank you. (i think he also put 300se/c, but i wasn't sure if c meant coupe, cabriolet, or?)

and, for the record, i think the coupe is probably one of the best looking models ever made, and the engine/standard trans combo makes it even better.

p.s. since you seem to know a great deal, a few further questions??

internet sources ( with grain of salt) suggest production of

1) some models up to 1967? 1968?
2) some models with v-8's? 3.5's and 4.5's ? (i have my doubts)

thanks.