Okay,
so i have a very nice, sunroof rust free w114 250c and I have it for sale,but have decided if it does not sell i'm doing a 6.9 transplant with a Getrag 265/ 5 speed manual trans.
Please spare me the why? can' be done etc. I was going after a m104/5 speed swap but figured that is pointless swapping in a 6 cyl for a 6 cyl.

Will be running AMG c32/Brembo brakes with front & rear running basically the same front kit.
Suspension in front will be all custom running Porsche 993 front rack & pinion and full suspension.

Running a back half roll cage meaning rear seats will still be usable just smaller.

Unfortunately I have a US smog motor at 250 flywheel hp but with exhaust mods, headers, ignition etc I will easily take the car to euro spec power at Rear Wheel.

Car is not worth much now so will be worth even less but who cares.
Ok anyone interested in collaborating or particpating in the Seattle area let me know- Hope to be ready for a shakedown cruise by next summer...

Have almost all the details worked out,but mainly looking for input from others who have transplanted m100 into lighter/smaller chassis How is the handling?

Not sure what I will but about weight distribution but have lots of ideas...
Thanks

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Aha someone after my heart!!
A 6.9 will certainly be tight . Concerning the front end, my friend in Germany found the stock front end in his W107 450SLC made a 6.9 sit a bit high. He lifted the car 50 mm (2" ) by placing spacers between the stock front end and the body. That meant dropping the center bearing down the same amount to keep everything in alignment .
The steering idler was in the way so the ilder mount was shortened.
I see you are going for a different front end . i would have kept the same front end but used a W210 steering rack .

The only difference between the Euro engines and the USA and Australia engines are the pistons. The Euro engines have flat tops.
The driving difference is like night and day though .
A euro 6.9 acelerates like nothing else.I'd like to haver some idea of your gearbox conversion .A guy in the M100 club ,Franz at big toys, was selling a conversion kit but no longer does it. I haven't heard of anyone else doing it.
As for handling, my mate installed the complete hydro suspension into the slc .
Another guy here in OZ has put a 6.9 into a SE . He kept the original suspension because he has been advised that the steel springs are better. my own veiw is that he has been told a load of crap. Wisdom amongst mercedes 'tuners' is that the SLS rear suspension can't be beat because it offers infinitely variable springing without adding unsprung weight.
You can bolt the 6.9 diff as a complete unit into a W114 . This will will give you anti dive geometry and LSD. Going lower in the ratios will only slow the car down. A 6.9 has almost 2-1 ratio and they have so much torque that a low ratio is'nt required.
First pic is a W210 steering rack ,Second shows a 450 SLC with stock 6.9 on the autobahn last week.

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I seen a W114 with a M117 5.0L aluminum block. 6.9 can be, but can be a headache in retrofitting.

About the gearbox,a stock 5-speed cannot handle the 6.9's massive torque (about 450 ft-lbs), but I read somewhere in my HOTROD magazine (June 2000 issue, it's old) KEISLER and TREMMEC manual transmissions makes a gearbox that could handle up to 600 ft-lbs of torque and offers 5 and 6 speeds can be adjusted up to 8 shifter locations, the product is focused on high cubic-inched muscle cars. The only thing is, making a bell housing to fit or mating a 6.9 and KEISLER or TREMMEC gearbox and customizing the flywheel ,clutch and pressure plate or clutch cover for it, making a flywheel to match the 6.9 will be much tricky.

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Thanks guys,
a stock getrag 265 can handle what the 6.9 has easily. I using the Getrag from a BMW 635 which many of my mates are using on their 500+rear wheel torque turbo cars.
Thanks for the idea on the 210 rack & pinion.
No custom flywheel , no custom pressure plate or disc, actually no custom parts other than the adapter plate to mate the Getrag to the M100...if custom parts break you have to make them again.

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You would have to use Custom flywheel etc because Mercedes never made anything in the way of manual trans big enough to fit a M-100.


Franz's conversions used a Ford T5 ,basically the smaller of the Tremec TRans.
The only Getrag i ever heard of behind a 6.9 is in the green 350SLC built by AMG back in 1978. That car is a serious weapon being a 7.2 liter.
Would that be 500Ft lb's of torque or 500HP from a BMW (I had a M6 20+ years ago and the torque was limp wristed compared with a stock 6.9) .A stock 6.3 produces way over 450 ft lbs of torque at the rear wheels,900Nm.
A few 6.3's were fitted with Maserati 5 speed trans .I only know one person world wide who has one for sale...LOL!!

A W114 has a very wide under hood area,bigger than a W107 ,but the tunnel entrance is a little small but that is the only place where a m100 may hit. Otherwise a 6.9 will slot in there without a problem.

We are discussing a lot of this sort of thing over here.
.http://www.benzworld.org/forums/vintage-mercedes-benz/1490192-w111-109-108-113-mods.html

NO CUSTOM FLYWHEEL....Custom flywheel is expensive and if I break it I have to have another built.
Lots of BMW 635/745i/535i running around with 500FT Torque at Rear Wheel including my 1987 L6 Turbo/5 speed..
Getrag 265 can handle the abuse
E24 M6 is a very weak motor. we use the 2 valve 3.2/3.4 making huge torque. Ford T5 is also weak so another useless tranny. only Tremac worth using is the 6 speed from the Pontiac GTO/Dodge Viper..but again useless for me because I do not want the weight.

After wednesday night I will know for certain if I am moving forward..

The Link did not work...

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Well....what will you use if you don't get one made? The only M100-s with manual trans all had to have a flywheel made. There would be around 10 to 15 world wide with a manual trans. No other mercedes had a flywheel big enough and that includes the commercial van engines etc . I do know how ever that Frans conversion with the T5 worked perfectly and the last time i saw the car two years ago it was still running well and strong with Zero problems . There are of course several dozen different varieties of T5's and the one fitted to Fords in the USA was cheap unit.

Down Under you guys get better Ford stuff, Because I have broken more T5 than I can count on 300rwhp mustangs, so T5 is no even on my radar.
The 6.9 ring gear that unbolts from the flywheel makes a custom flywheel redundant.

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but it's still a big diameter . 385 diameter vs 320 diameter of the normal mercedes flywheel . The mount lugs of a 6.9 ring gear ,which is different to the one Pictured, is bigger than the total diameter of the normal ring gear. You will still have to get one made. If you think that you can bolt a tiny flywheel (ala GM etc ) the torque of a 6.9 will eat it.

Welcome to the club!

The W114 and the r107 share a lot of chassis elements including the front subframe. This allows you to upgrade to a M117 engine and SL560 big brakes atc. as straight fit. The M117 alloy block is MUCH lighter and some versions develop 300hp stock, which is more than the euro version 6.9. The M117 will also make the adaptation of the Getrag 265 much easier. It will have a bit less torque than the 6.9 but I think it is beter suited for a manual transmission.

Fitting a 6.9 will be much more work (costing you more than what you save by using the 6.9 engine instead of sourcing a 300hp M117), you will have a nose heavy car and you will need to work a lot on the suspension.

I had a 6.9 installed on a W111 Coupe and I now have chosen the M117 route.

All that said, the M100 engine has its qualities, mainly monster torque (but nothing you can't match by fitting a turbo on an M117) and also has its aficionados. I can understand it as all what I'm doing on my project is to reproduce in some ways the pleasure I had by driving a nice 6.3.

Again no custom flywheel--my 1987 BMW L6 turbo has well over 500ft lbs torque at the wheels and uses a stock small factory light weight flywheel.
personally in my opinion its a myth that the 6.9 needs that massive flywheel to adapt a clutch..My Porsche 996 TT has over 500 ft lbs at the wheel and a flywheel about the size of BMW L6...No custom flywheel..I'll adapt it the same way I have adapted manual to auto's for 7 years 6.9 or not, there is nothing special about the torque of a 6.9 plenty of engine have sky high torque and few run such a massive flywheel...

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so why don't you tell us what you intend to use then? because i have never heard of a factory flywheel for a M-100 engine. There only around 18,000 M100 engines made from 1964 through to 1980 and only AMG and one or two others including Franz made manual conversions.

I have driven all sorts of cars including racing a 354 cu in Hemi on the salt (1000 REAL horse power on pump fuel .123 mph in First gear ) and nothing except maybe a Cummins 6BT diesel has the same feeling of torque that a 6.9 does. I am restoring a Buick here for a customer with (alledgedly ) 455 ft lbs of torque and even that feels nothing as torquey as a 6.9.
I know a lot people say that there cars have X amount of flywheel power etc but the truth is on the track as the saying goes.
A large flywheel is necessary to have sufficient surface area .A porsche hasn't got the physical room to have a big Single plate clutch but if you were to sit down and measure the surface area of the driven and pressure plate you will find the area to be similar as to what a M=100 needs to survive.

I recently read an article about doble disc (or more) clutches for US tuned muscle cars. Apparently these are able to hold massive torque while the pressure to be applied on the pedal remains reasonable, and the outer diameter remains the same as the US V8 ones.

Ford had a multiplate clutch on the falcon GTHO here nearly 40 years ago.